BREAKING NEWS: PUJOLS TO ANGELS

by JohnBowen

The game’s best player has finally made his decision and has elected to take his talents to South…ern California.

The deal is rumored to be between 250 and 260 million dollars for 10 years with a full no-trade.

Because of the legacy and establishment that Albert Pujols had built up in St. Louis, the rumor was that he would need 40 million dollars more than the Cardinals were offering and a full no-trade; the Marlins, who until recently were in the bidding, refused to budge on the latter, making it look as if taking the Cardinals re-signing their franchise cornerstone was all but a formality. Then Arte Moreno decided he could expand payroll far greater than originally thought.

It should be noted that when Alex Rodriguez signed his current 10-year pact with the Yankees, he was the same age as Pujols.

In 11 years with the Cardinals, Albert Pujols won 3 MVP’s and finished second 4 times. He led his team to 3 pennants and 2 World Championships.

Personally, I’m torn. The baseball fan in me hates that Pujols will not spend his entire career with one team; the Brewers fan in me won’t miss facing that bat 18 times a season.

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366 Responses to “BREAKING NEWS: PUJOLS TO ANGELS”

  1. Bob Says:

    What a shocker.

  2. Bob Says:

    And now C.J. Wilson joins him there.

  3. Cameron Says:

    Holy shit, did not see Anaheim as serious players for Pujols… Or Wilson. And certainly not both.

    Jerry Dipoto, my hat is off to you.

  4. Chuck Says:

    Jerry DiPoto my ass.

    More like Arte Moreno’s three billion dollar bank account.

  5. John Says:

    Gotta agree with Chuck here.

    There’s nothing impressive about acquiring a good player for a ton of money.

  6. Cameron Says:

    That too. I’ll wait for a trade that brings in talent or cuts dead weight first.

    You think a Wells-Zambrano contract swap would fly?

  7. Raul Says:

    Frankly, I think staying with one team is overrated.

    I’m glad he left.
    And I bet Pujols wasn’t too keen on playing for Mike Matheny either. But that’s just me.

  8. Cameron Says:

    I like players who stay with one team, but I won’t fault a guy for wanting to make another 40 million bucks, you know?

    Plus his relationship with LaRussa was a big factor. He was gonna play for a new manager regardless. If he wants to go for one with a track record of winning as opposed to a track record of nothing, I understand.

  9. Bob Says:

    The Rockies are thinking about Cuddyer.

  10. Cameron Says:

    Anyone with a bat can look good in Colorado. I say go for it, they really don’t have a right fielder… Or third baseman… Or second… First is gonna be a concern real soon…

    Shit, anything Mike can play is something they need.

  11. Brautigan Says:

    “but I won’t fault a guy for wanting to make another 40 million bucks, you know?”

    I will. Greed kills boys and girls.

    Dude has already made $100 million in his career. And now, he signs for an additional $260 million. It amazes me to think people consider this a bit of capitalism. I think it is just stupidity at it’s highest level. Our priorities are totally out of whack.

    I commented last year that by his 37th at bat, Carl Crawford made more money in 2011 than I had in my entire life. This just simply amazes me that we consider this a “part of business as usual”.

    If anything will turn me off to baseball, it is crap like this.

  12. Raul Says:

    I can’t believe there’s such a demand this winter for CJ Wilson and Cuddyer.

    What a horrible, horrible pool of talent.

    But it’s good for the game! Right? All hail Bud Selig and 70 million dollars for average players!! Hoorah! Hoorah!

  13. Raul Says:

    Someday these capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes.
    Eh? Eh Comrade?

    BTW, I agree with you, Braut.

  14. Cameron Says:

    I can at least understand the thinking here. Cuddyer’s a guy who can play both corners and every base on the infield with 20-25 HR power. Rare commodity there. As for Wilson, he may only have two years as a starter, but they’ve been two relly good fuckin’ years.

    Do I think CJ Wilson’s worth what he’s getting paid? No. Cuddyer? We’ll see. I’d pay him 8 per TBH, just because that guy can be plugged in to half the spots on my team with a good bat to back it up.

    These guys aren’t as bad as, say, Gary Matthews Jr. or Oliver Perez in talent/contract value.

  15. Cameron Says:

    And Yu Darvish’s agent has confirmed his intention to post. I’ll be watching this one closely. Darvish has potential like few do, this is going to be an exciting kid to watch.

  16. Cameron Says:

    Fun reactions from the executives around the league. In short?

    NL Execs: Thank god!
    AL Execs: …Fuck.

  17. Cameron Says:

    And CJ Wilson’s deal is… 77.5/5. Huh, cheaper than I thought he’d go for. Looks like a hometown discount.

  18. Cameron Says:

    How much is a pair of no-trade clauses worth? About 45 million bucks. Miami offered Albert 10/275 (or, A-Rod’s contract) and Wilson in excess of 100 million, but neither would get a no-trade clause, which turned out to be Albert’s deal breaker.

    If they both would’ve signed, Florida would have committed over half a billion of dollars in payroll for future teams.

  19. Raul Says:

    That SS the Yankees bid for only cost 2 million.

    I doubt Darvish gets a high bid.
    Major League teams are highly wary of Japanese players.

    And the Yankees are not going to be involved in him. They’re trying to keep payroll under control so they don’t get crushed by luxury taxes in 2014.

  20. Bob Says:

    You know something. I am not believing for a second tht certain teams will not be involved on Darvish. A smokescreen.
    1.The Yankees will be sans Jeter and Mo come 2014. Plus Swisher. That is alot of money coming off the books. Of course I assume Mo retirs after this year and Jeter and the Yanks both decline his option.

  21. Cameron Says:

    There’s a difference between Nakajima and Darvish. No one thought Nakajima was gonna be a star player in the majors. He was decent, but no one profiled him as more than a utility player. Darvish, by these same scouts, is getting profiled as an ace in the league without throwing an MLB pitch.

    That’d be like saying just because Yuniesky Betancourt got a million dollars that Roy Halladay only deserves five million.

  22. JohnBowen Says:

    “But it’s good for the game! Right? All hail Bud Selig and 70 million dollars for average players!! Hoorah! Hoorah!”

    “I commented last year that by his 37th at bat, Carl Crawford made more money in 2011 than I had in my entire life. This just simply amazes me that we consider this a “part of business as usual”.”

    Everybody on this blog watches, I would say, around 500 hours of Major League Baseball a year.

    THAT’S WHY THESE GUYS MAKE SO MUCH MONEY.

    It’s *our* fault, to the extent that fault is even the proper word here.

    Major League Baseball draws more fans than it ever has, and, largely through internet streaming and cable/satellite television is more accessible than ever before.

    If baseball players didn’t generate this level of interest and revenue, they wouldn’t all be millionaires. But, alas, they do generate a high level of interest and revenue, and are thus compensated.

    What do you want Bud to do? Make baseball LESS popular so that nobody watches and revenues are too low for players to get these big-time deals?

  23. Raul Says:

    The Yankees will get smacked with huge luxury taxes if they are above a 175 million dollar threshold (or something like that) in 2013 based on the new CBA.

    That’s likely why they are trying to keep their minor leaguers because they’re cheap. And it’s why they haven’t gone out and tried to get Buehrle.

    The concern about the payroll is such that they aren’t even sure if they will sign Robinson Cano to a long-term deal.

  24. Raul Says:

    *2014

  25. Bob Says:

    I am well of the difference between the two. I also know you never believe what a teams says about their interests during the draft and free-agency period.

  26. Raul Says:

    From another article:

    “But as an organization, they are saying they are driven to have a payroll of $189 million or less in 2014 when that becomes the luxury tax threshold. Because the incentives that come via the new CBA are just too great for them to ignore.

    For if they are at $189 million or less for the three seasons from 2014-16, they not only avoid paying one cent in luxury tax, which would rise to 50 percent for them as repeat offenders, but they also would get roughly $40 million in savings via the to-be-implemented market disqualification revenue sharing program. However, only teams under the luxury-tax threshold get reimbursed in this program, which is designed to prevent big markets such as Toronto and Washington from receiving revenue sharing dollars, which in turn will lower how much teams such as the Yanks pay (as long as they are under the threshold).

    And even if they just went under $189 million for 2014 before going over again in 2015, the Yankees would receive serious benefits. They would get about $10 million in the revenue sharing disqualification program. Also, by simply going under the threshold once, the Yankees would go back to having a 17.5 percent tax rather than the 50 percent that begins in 2014 for them if they never go under. Keep in mind that since the luxury tax went to 40 percent for them in 2005, the Yankees have averaged paying $25.75 million in tax annually.”

  27. JohnBowen Says:

    I will say that the Wilson deal is bad, though not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

    The guy has great numbers the last couple years.

    He’s started a grand total of 73 games in his entire career.

    The Pujols deal is obviously going to burden the team down the line, but at least you have about the most proven commodity there is. He’s been in the league 11 years, and leads active players in BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS. Before this season, he had a string of five consecutive seasons leading the NL in WAR. Last year was his worst career season, and he was still 5th in the league in MVP voting.

    My point is that he’s not nearly as much as a variable (though his age may be). Fact of the matter is that if you’re going to make this kind of a commitment, Pujols is the guy you go with.

    Wilson is not.

    Besides, if you want a FA now and in the short-term, you’re just going to have to accept that you’ll pay for him to be over the hill. That’s just part of the price of getting him. Every team in baseball had two options: Overpay for Albert Pujols’s age 36-41 seasons, or not have him at all. There’s no in-between.

  28. Bob Says:

    Two people have been killed at Virginia Tech.

  29. JohnBowen Says:

    That’s sad. I feel for that campus.

    In other, less sad news, the Brewers have signed Alex Gonzalez to a 1-year deal.

  30. Lefty33 Says:

    “That’s likely why they are trying to keep their minor leaguers because they’re cheap. And it’s why they haven’t gone out and tried to get Buehrle.”

    Doubtful.

    They didn’t go after Buehrle because it’s moronic to pay 58 million dollars over four years to a guy who will be 33 at the beginning of the ‘12 season and does nothing except lead the league in hits allowed.

    In the NL that’s a bad contract, in the AL that’s a shoot yourself in the face contract.

    “The concern about the payroll is such that they aren’t even sure if they will sign Robinson Cano to a long-term deal.”

    Doubtful.

    If Jeter exercises his option for the ‘14 season they will owe over $80 million dollars to four players. It will be bordering on impossible for them to pay 21 major league caliber players and actually stay under the cap number unless the Yankees are going to start paying having their payroll look like the Pirates and that will only draw people to scream collusion.

  31. Raul Says:

    I have no idea whether you’re disagreeing or not @ Lefty.

    But it sounds like we’re saying the same thing.

    The Yankees don’t want to go over the threshold — doesn’t matter if it’s Buehrle, Cano, or whomever.

  32. JohnBowen Says:

    Alex Gonzalez’s most similar player is the other Alex Gonzlaez.

    That’s pretty funny.

  33. Chuck Says:

    Jared Weaver
    Dan Haren
    Ervin Santana
    CJ Wilson

    So, the Angels are paying their NUMBER FOUR starter $15 mill per?

    Joke’s on them, son.

  34. Lefty33 Says:

    I’m disagreeing on both ideas.

    The Yankees didn’t go after Buehrle because it would have been a waste of money to pay 15 million a year to Andy Pettite light. In the AL by the time he’s in year three and four that contract looks horrible. In the NL it’s bad but possibly he can fake his way to the finish line and maybe he won’t allow 250+ hits a season.

    The new CBA had nothing to do with that. The Yankees new direction from Levine, Hank, and Cashman where they are running the team more like it’s 1996 instead of 2006 is the reason.

    On point two the Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox will go over that total with ease. The Yankees possibly will owe over $80 million to four players in ‘14. There is no way they will only spend $100 million on 21 other players.

    I’m not saying that they’ll be spending 250 million on payroll but there is no way they are under the tax number. They’ll be over the number along with a couple of other teams.

    It’s impossible to supress salary growth that way.

    Like I said if that happens the screams of collusion will be heard.

  35. Chuck Says:

    “That SS the Yankees bid for only cost 2 million”

    He’s not going to sign.

    He only wants to play for a West Coast team.

    I think when Cashman’s cell rang at the Winter Meetings and was told the Yanks won the bidding, he had to run back up to his suite to change his pants.

  36. Chuck Says:

    What the new CBA is designed to do was limit stupidity, because both sides know you can’t eliminate it altogether.

    If the Yanks want to sign Cano to a 8/140 deal they can, they just have to write MLB another check later on.

    But if it at least makes them THINK about Darvish and Wilson and Buerhle, then that’s a good thing.

    It’s too late to do anything about ARod’s deal, and Burnett’s deal, and to an extent Sabathia’s and Teixeira’s, but not too late to give away a big money deal just because.

    It also drops top free agents down the list..Yanks say no, Phillies say no, Red Sox say no, then teams like the Marlins and Orioles and Mariners have a shot, which in turn adds to “competetive balance.”

  37. Raul Says:

    Yeah I actually think the CBA has a lot to do with the Buehrle thing.

    You say it’s dumb to pay 15 million for a guy like Buehrle. Fine.
    But if you don’t think taking on that Buehrle contract AND having that contract be the piece that force them to shell out an additional 30-40-50 million dollars in luxury taxes had nothing to do with it?….well…So be it.

  38. Chuck Says:

    Good point, Raul.

    The penalties escalate depending on how far over the threshold you are. It’s possible the Yanks could pay a penalty more than the value of Buehrle’s contract.

    Now, that would be dumb.

  39. Lefty33 Says:

    “But if you don’t think taking on that Buehrle contract AND having that contract be the piece that force them to shell out an additional 30-40-50 million dollars in luxury taxes had nothing to do with it?….well…So be it.”

    The Yankees are making an effort to move away from the end of King George era of just throwing money at everyone just to prove they could.

    The team is currently being run more like when Stick Michael was in charge then the era when George mandated that The Big Unit be signed at all costs kind of like a hunter that wanted another trophy for his den.

    Like Chuck said, if they want to sign Cano or whomever (King Felix in a few years) they will and writing MLB a check is not going to stop them.

    Every sport but the NFL has proven that the rules for spending are irrelevant and that you can’t fix stupid. If owners want to spend themselves into the abyss they will. I mean that’s the whole basis for the NBA’s recent lockout and the NHL’s last lockout.

  40. Chuck Says:

    Look at the Mets.

    They have $51 million invested in three players, and one of them can’t even play.

    They’re cutting their payroll from $140 to around $100, maybe less.

    They’ll have four or five everyday players making ML minimum because they can’t even afford their own arbitration guys (Pagan).

    They’re a joke.

  41. JohnBowen Says:

    @33, I think I would put Wilson ahead of Ervin Santana; besides, I’ve never been a fan of designating guys “#1, #2, #3″ … they’re three pitchers, all in the top 15-20 or so in baseball who provide a certain value through pitching.

    Obviously, if you have those three guys, it means your priority is pitching, but it’s not like CJ Wilson suddenly became Freddy Garcia because he went from being the best pitcher on one team to the #3 on another.

    No one says, oh boy, the Yankees are paying 12 million dollars to their #6 hitter. They’re paying 12 million dollars, or whatever, to Nick Swisher.

    That said, I would not have invested 5 years at 15 per on Wilson, not by a long shot.

    That’s over twice as long as he’s been a starting pitcher for.

  42. Chuck Says:

    ” I’ve never been a fan of designating guys “#1, #2, #3″ …”

    True, it doesn’t have meaning anymore.

    The number one pitcher on the Royals, Bruce Chen, couldn’t make the Phillies.

  43. Brautigan Says:

    JB @ #22:

    I don’t know how much MLB I watched on the tube this last year, but I didn’t miss much of the NLCS and I did not miss any of the WS (sans the times I had to go to the bathroom or refill the gin & tonic or have a bowl full). But, I am racking my brain trying to remember the last MLB game I attended in person. Was it in Seattle? Was it in Miami? I really cannot remember.

    But, in the past 5 years, I have seen well over 100 minor league games from low A to AAA. My $5-$8 tickets go more for those local economies than to any MLB team.

  44. Lefty33 Says:

    “The number one pitcher on the Royals, Bruce Chen, couldn’t make the Phillies.”

    Fo’ Sho.

    Already tried and failed once in that department.

  45. JohnBowen Says:

    Well, you live in Portland.

    I highly recommend MLB.tv to keep up with your beloved Cardinals during the season…but then you might be contributing to the rich getting richer :D

  46. Lefty33 Says:

    Although on second thought Chen was good for one thing.

    When the Phillies traded him to the Mets they got Turk Wendell in return and watching that Whack pitch was good comedy.

    The seven plus ERA he put up in ‘01 was ledgendary suckdom.

  47. Raul Says:

    LOL

    Turk Wendell? With his Crocodile Hunter necklace?

  48. Lefty33 Says:

    “With his Crocodile Hunter necklace?”

    It was actually made of shark’s teeth.

    http://jorgesaysno.blogspot.com/2009/04/favorite-baseball-superstitions.html

  49. Chuck Says:

    Wendell had a habit of chewing black licorice on the field, like some guys chew gum or snuff.

    He’d jam a few pieces and would spit black.

    Once, when he was with the Mets, he covered first on a grounder and collided with the runner, and swallowed his chew.

    It was the third out, and he got back to the dugout and proceeded to puke up four hours worth of the stuff, completely emptied the bench.

    For the last two innings, there were 30 guys on one side, in a 15 foot space, and the other half empty except for gatorade jugs.

  50. Brautigan Says:

    I remember when Wendell first came up with the Cubs. He had this beat to crap Nissan or Toyota pickup (a small little rig) and it had antlers on the rear view mirror, pelts from some unknown dead road kill over the seats, over the dashboard, and just about every where else. Man, we loved that. I have some photos somewhere of his beat to crap pick up truck with dead animals some where…… Turk was a great guy, had a great autograph.

  51. Brautigan Says:

    Anyone pay attention to the Rule 5 draft? That’s what I thought.

    Robert Fish was the only one in the ML portion I had heard of, otherwise there were a few in AAA portion I had heard of. It might get to the point where Rule 5 will go the way of the dinosaurs.

  52. Cameron Says:

    #42 Let’s take a look at the KC starter depth chart…

    1. Luke Hochevar
    2. Bruce Chen
    3. Jonathon Sanchez
    4. Felipe Paulino
    5. Danny Duffy

    …Oh this is gonna be painful.

  53. Cameron Says:

    Yu Darvish has been posted, the period ends Wednesday. Consensus is… Bids will be cautious. The Rangers said they won’t pay 100+ with combined posting and contract. Looks like the posting will be low, but the contract will compensate.

    All in all? I say he makes less than Matsuzaka’s posting due to the CBA, but he’ll cost a good chunk of cash. I say the winning bid’s north of 25.

  54. brautigan Says:

    Give Mike Montgomery a shot. He could crack that rotation.

  55. Cameron Says:

    No doubt he gets ST invites. Along with guys like Dwyer, Melville, and Odorizzi, as well as possibly giving Crow some starts. At this point, I think the only guys that really figure to be long-term fixtures are Sanchez (if we can keep him and I hope we do) and Duffy. Paulino’s a reliever who can throw five innings, Hochevar is untouchable for four innings and then turns into a pumpkin, and Chen… Is Chen.

    Expect a lot of turnover in that rotation this year. It’s gonna be another rebuilding years. We’re seeing it in the bullpen, we’ve seen a massive overhaul in the lineup with Giavotella, Hosmer, and Moose playing everyday now, the rotation’s next in line.

  56. Raul Says:

    You keep holding out hope that Crow gets moved to the rotation.

    There’s no indication the Royals are going to do that.

  57. Cameron Says:

    At this rate, I’m starting to question. The main thing holding him back isn’t the talent, he’s got talent out the ass. It isn’t stamina, he can start. Aaron Crow’s a two-pitch pitcher, that’s why he’s in the bullpen. Put him out in the length of an average start and he’ll get hurt. When your arsenal’s a coin flip, you’re not gonna be a good starter.

  58. Chuck Says:

    “You keep holding out hope that Crow gets moved to the rotation.

    There’s no indication the Royals are going to do that.”

    During an interview Wednesday on MLBNetwork, Ned Yost indicated Crow will be in ST competing for a rotation spot.

  59. Chuck Says:

    One more free agent chip to fall then we can start looking at rosters for ST.

    I don’t think anyone give a bleep about Carlos Pena or Aramis Ramirez, once Fielder signs that’s it.

  60. Bob Says:

    Prosecuters are hoping Bonds spends 15 months in prison.

  61. Raul Says:

    @58

    So I’m starting off my Friday as being wrong.
    …great.

  62. Raul Says:

    Defense wants Bonds out on probation.

    Yep. That’s the ticket. Show the public you mean business!!
    Lie in court in April…wait until December…out free on the streets…and then get probation.

    Remember kids.
    Nobody is above the law.

    …except rich people.

  63. Chuck Says:

    I just realized…Angels ST is in Arizona.

    I can see Pujols in person for a few years.

    Cool.

  64. Bob Says:

    A few years??? I think for a decade. He has a no-trade. Enjoy his talents.

  65. Chuck Says:

    True, Bob, but in eight years he’ll be a 40 year old pinch hitter..what’s so exciting about watching him then?

  66. Bob Says:

    Touche

  67. Chuck Says:

    For teams looking for a relatively inexpensive first base option and don’t want to invest more than a couple of years in Carlos Pena, Kendrys Morales is available.

  68. Brautigan Says:

    When the Angels brought in Vlad Guerrero a few years ago, that aquisition alone turned the Angels spring training camp into a gulag. What do you think it will do to the Tempe Diablo camp now?

    Razor wire anyone?

  69. Bob Says:

    In an attempt at upstaging their Floida counterpart, the Rays sign Matt Moore for at least 5 more years. Fantastic deal for Tampa.

  70. Raul Says:

    Agreed, Bob.

  71. Chuck Says:

    Braut..

    Best place in AZ to watch a game?

    The patio bar at the Top of the Rock Restaurant.

    Can look down the hill right into Diablo Stadium.

  72. Kerry Says:

    @33,41,42: I agree with John, Wilson ranks above Santana. Given the park he’s been pitching in, I think his numbers are better than Haren’s, too (same age, too).

    Also, the Angels aren’t paying Wilson 15M this year, according to Cot’s Contracts his is heavily backloaded — 10.5, 11.5, 16.5, 18.5, 20.5. Of course that makes the out years look even worse. They also will be in the final year of Weaver’s contract in 2016, at 20.2M. Yikes! 40M+ to two 35-year-old pitchers, plus Albert’s 25M or so at age 36, in 2016.

  73. JohnBowen Says:

    Kerry! How are you holding up?

  74. Kerry Says:

    Another aspect of the Pujols signing is that the Cards get compensation because they offered him arbitration (knowing he wasn’t going to accept a one-year deal).

    The one thing that bothers me the most is his earlier comment that it’s not about the money. Of course, he went on to say that it’s about winning. Do you think he thinks that his chances of winning are better in Anaheim? Maybe he feared that his contract was going to strap the Cards so much that it would hinder their chances in the future, especially due to the lack of DH in the NL. (Or maybe he just wanted more money.) There were a lot of factors at work (including a manager change either way), and most of them were leaning west.

  75. Kerry Says:

    Hey John, very busy right now (end of semester, my mother is moving into a retirement community, finishing a book), but with the Pujols events I had to resurface at least temporarily :-)

  76. Raul Says:

    Why would it bother you that he said it wasn’t about the money — when you know it is always about the money?

    Athletes lie.
    Politicians lie.

    It’s a fact of life.

  77. Cameron Says:

    You know Chuck, I envy you sometimes. You know guys like Robin Yount personally. You know the one ballplayer I know? Tom Gorzelanny. Nice guy, though. Kinda boring, doesn’t like talking about his job.

  78. Chuck Says:

    It’s not what it seems, Cam, I mean, it’s not like I get anything out of it.

    Three or four times a year I show up at some alumni event or clinic and hang out for a couple of hours, then go have a couple cold ones after.

    It’s not like I can put Yount’s name on my resume or anything.

    Although the last time I saw him he actually remembered me, which shocked the hell out of me.

    And word to the wise, if you ever meet Rick Sutcliffe, do not, under any circumstances, call him “Princess.”

  79. Raul Says:

    I heard Deion Sanders is going to introduce Tim McCarver at the Hall of Fame.

    Well, not really.
    But I can hope.

  80. Cameron Says:

    Sutcliffe lives in my town, actually. I live in a suburb of Kansas City, Lee’s Summit. It’s a great place. I just don’t know where the fuck he actually lives. I have a decent guess, though. All the rich people in town pretty much share the neighborhood up in Blackwell.

    Frank White also lives in town. I actually HAVE met Frank, albeit it was part of contract work at the stadium. Great man. I have an autographed ball from him.

  81. Brautigan Says:

    Frank White. There is one guy whose autograph I missed and I regret it. It was at Surprise and we were on the back fields and White was working out with some minor league infielders (one thing you DO NOT do is ask for an autograph from a player or coach while they are working. It is rude and it usually makes for a bad scene). Anyway, this is back in the days of Tony Pena’s rule and so we went down the slope to where the players head in to the locker room. I saw Zack Greinke coming off the field and I asked him for his autograph. He looked over his shoulder and saw Pena and he said “come here” and he walked behind an out building to where Pena couldn’t see him. I said “what’s up with that?” and he said if Pena sees you signing an autograph on the field while people are working, he would fine you. So Greinke signs my cards for me. And I put in the wait for White. However, here comes George Brett and I hustle over to try to get his autograph (which was a waste of my time). Brett exits the field in his oh so cheery way (ok, facetious alert here) and I turn back to where White is. Or should I say “was”, because he was gone. I haven’t seen him since. And I truly regret not getting his autograph, he was a heck of a player.

  82. Brautigan Says:

    Sutcliffe is a pretty funny guy. And yes, I wouldn’t call him “Princess”.

  83. Cameron Says:

    Met Brett too. He’s uh… He’s about what you expect, really.

  84. Chuck Says:

    I never saw Randy Johnson or Ken Griffey Jr sign an autograph in all the time I saw the Mariners in ST.

    ARod signed everything.

    If there’s one thing I give him credit, and respect, for, that’s it.

  85. Cameron Says:

    From what I remember, Johnson and Griffey in Seattle were very famous athletes right at the time where internet auctions were getting huge. If I’m in their position, I’m not gonna sign an autograph for someone I think probably isn’t gonna keep it. If it’s a kid? Yeah, I’ll sign. If it’s someone who asks “Can you make this out to Ebay?” I’m gonna be cautious.

  86. Chuck Says:

    Signing is a job requirement.

    Dealers might as well be wearing neon signs around their neck, but for anyone else, there’s no excuse, especially at the park.

  87. Brautigan Says:

    I dislike the dealers a great deal. If a particular player is not signing, you can tell who the dealers are. They are the ones that start to give the player crap for not signing. Collectors rarely will do that.

    And funny, the dealers are the ones that come out with an army of kids to get autographs signed for them. I’ve seen it a lot.

    I too have never seen Griffey or Randy Johnson sign an autograph. Ever. Not that they are bad people, I’ve talked to Griffey before at length and he seemed like a real nice kid (1992), and my friend Greg ran into Randy Johnson at the Sea-Tac airport and he too reports that Johnson was really cool. He said that surprised him because he was always a jerk when he asked him for his autograph.

  88. Chuck Says:

    People have to understand there are rules governing autographs at the ballpark.

    Asking a player when he’s in the on deck circle or doing his stretching, you deserve to get cussed out.

    But at the same time, there’s no excuse for a player to say no.

    I saw Kenny Rogers sign for 20 minutes with an icebag strapped to his elbow.

    The same one he signs with.

    And NOBODY signs more than Josh Hamilton.

  89. Cameron Says:

    I think it just might be the times. Everything was getting sold off back then and they were wary of who might and might not be a dealer. When shit like Ebay got started and you see McGwire’s #62 going for three million bucks, you don’t wanna be a sucker.

    Not saying I agree with what they did, but I can see where they’re coming from and I’d probably do the same thing given the circumstances.

  90. Brautigan Says:

    “Signing is a job requirement.”

    Yes, I agree, but sometimes a guy is just not having a good day, or is in a hurry or with family, and then I’m just not going to hassle them.

    Some of my best encounters with players have come after the guy has said “I’m not signing today”. I spent over a half hour with Will Clark in Seattle after such an ecounter. You could just tell he was a red ass, and I loved every minute of it. Ran into Jeffrey Hammonds once, and I walked up to him and started chatting with him. He goes “didn’t I sign for you at the ballpark (Hi Corbett)?” and I said “you sure did, a couple of really nice autographs”. He said “oh”…..and then we proceeded to chat about baseball, where to get good pizza in Tucson, where to buy the best and sweetest beer in Arizona, etc. etc. Did the same with Lee Smith in some random mall in Phoenix. SO, in the end, it’s all good. Only guys like Brett and Barry Bonds, Johnny Bench make it a realy unpleasant experience.

    Talk old cars with Reggie Jackson and he’ll treat you like an old long lost friend. Mention baseball and his eyes get foggy and he’ll look for an escape plan.

  91. Cameron Says:

    Oh I love this. Tampa Bay’s got Matt Moore locked up. 5/14, with three club option years that could make it 8/37.5 with performance escalators that, at max, make this contract 5/40.

    THAT is a fucking extension. For a kid like Moore? To get him that cheap? God damn.

  92. Brautigan Says:

    I’m in mid-town Manhattan during the 2008 all star weekend when they had the all star motorcade parade down 6th ave. Hamilton and his wife are in this convertible and at the corner where I was standing, there were five guys in Texas gear. Hamilton’s car stops at the corner and these guys are all like “Hey Josh, hey Josh, good to see you” etc. Hamilton motions them over and security lets them into the street and he sits there (and actually holds up the motorcade when it starts again) and signs several autographs each for these guys. They floated back to the curb and EVERYONE at that intersection applauds Josh Hamilton.

    When he was a young man at Bakersfield, this guy approaches him with about 70 Hamilton baseball cards. Hamilton puts his gear down, sits down and signs every freaking card this guy has, chatting him up the whole time. When he finishes, Hamilton goes “you got anything else you want signed?” and the guy goes “you’re kidding?” and Hamilton goes “no, not at all”. Hamilton goes on to tell him to bring anything he wants and he’ll sign it.

    I’ve never gotten Josh’s autograph, but he is my all time fav just for that encounter with a friend of mine alone.

  93. Brautigan Says:

    Once at High Corbett, Larry Walker is done with practice and kids and adults are asking him for his autograph. He goes “NO!”. He’s about to walk into the clubhouse and I go “Larry, how’s your favorite hockey team doing?” and he sat there and talked hockey (he knew more about the WHL Portland Winterhawks than I did, I kid you not) til he was blue in the face. THEN, he signs all the stuff I had with me related to Larry Walker.

    I was not a popular person at Hi Corbett that day. But quite possibly, the smartest.

  94. Chuck Says:

    Most guys will only sign balls and cards or programs, Hamilton signs everyfreakingthing.

    Jerseys, tshirts, caps, bats, soda cups, napkins.

  95. Cameron Says:

    Sounds like Hamilton’s a really cool dude. Most born-again rehab cases like him usually as long as you don’t try talking religion with ‘em. I met the wrestler Shawn Michaels once, guy was a pretty bad drug case too and now he’s probably the nicest guy I ever met.

    I also realized how bullshit wrestlers get their height billed at. He’s supposed to be 6′1″ and he’s barely taller than me.

  96. Chuck Says:

    I remember once when Carlos Beltran was with the Royals, he was walking off the field with a couple of young guys and he stopped to sign. One of the guys kept walking and went into the clubhouse.

    Beltran stopped signing, went and brought the kid back out to sign with him.

  97. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, sounds like Carols. Never heard a bad thing about the guy and he absolutely loves the Royals. I still remember he said if he goes into the Hall of Fame, he wants it to be as a Royal. If I had to guess, he’d probably enter a Met, but the thought is nice.

  98. Chuck Says:

    The all-time best dealer story was the one I told before about the guys crowding around the dugout in Scottsdale trying to get Stephen Strasburg and a couple Fall Leaguers, and Tim Lincecum was sitting fifteen feet away dressed like a homeless guy with his little beenie hat on.

    Nobody recognized him.

  99. Bob Says:

    The Angels and Fox sports agreed to a 20-yera deal woth at least $3 billion. Wwarner Cable, and the Dodgers by being bankrupt.

  100. Bob Says:

    Sorry, doing 2 things at once. The Dodgers could not get the contract due to their situation, while the Lakers switched to Time Warner Cable. Again, sorry for post 99.

  101. Bob Says:

    T.G.I.F.!!!!!!!!!

  102. Cameron Says:

    It’s not hard for Freak to look like a hobo.

  103. Cameron Says:

    Seems like Arizona’s managed to get a trade out of Oakland.

    Trevor Cahill and Craig Breslow for Jarrod Parker, Colin Cowgill, and “other prospects”.

    Not bad for Arizona. Kennedy, Hudson, and Cahill as a front three? Young, cost-controlled, and all got in pretty reasonable trades.

  104. Chuck Says:

    Wait….we traded Jarrod fucking Parker for WHAT!!??

  105. Cameron Says:

    Nothing’s finalized yet, there is thought that Skaggs could go instead of Parker, but as of now, Parker’s the likely top prospect to go.

  106. Brautigan Says:

    …..and you guys thought Billy Beane was brain dead.

    Especially if he lands Skaggs.

  107. Brautigan Says:

    IT’s easier for Freak to look like a fan at a Phish concert than it is for him to look like a major league baseball player.

  108. Cameron Says:

    I like Parker more than Skaggs, actually.

  109. Chuck Says:

    I do, too.

  110. Cameron Says:

    Though I guess the management sees him as more expendable than he used to be now that they’ve got Bauer and Bradley. Those two kids are studs.

  111. Chuck Says:

    Plus, Skaggs has a gift from God.

    He’s lefthanded.

  112. Cameron Says:

    And decent stuff and gas for a lefty. It ain’t great, but he’s pretty good.

  113. Brautigan Says:

    I don’t know, after close to watching Cal League ball for 20 years, Skaggs put in the most dominating pitching performance I have ever seen in that league. And I’ve seen some good ones.

    With Parker’s injury history, and the fact Skaggs is younger (AND left handed), I’d keep Skaggs over Parker any day of the week. And I’ll be willing to back that up with a betting line.

  114. Brautigan Says:

    Lyle Overbay to the Snakes.

    WTF?

  115. Brautigan Says:

    Does Reno need a first baseman since Brandon Allen is gone?

  116. Cameron Says:

    Roster padding, Braut.

  117. Cameron Says:

    It’s official.

    Arizona Gets
    -
    Trevor Cahill
    Craig Breslow
    Cash

    Oakland Gets
    -
    Jarrod Parker
    Colin Cowgill
    Chris Cook

  118. Kerry Says:

    @76 Yeah, but you might have hoped there would some kind of hometown discount. Maybe there was, just not that much. And maybe he thought that the Angels had more money not just for him, but for the rest of team, which wold make them more competitive long-term.

  119. Cameron Says:

    I remember the holdup in negotiations with Miami and St. Louis was no-trade rights. You think it’s possible St. Louis was only offering a partial no-trade at the moment?

  120. Raul Says:

    Wasn’t the STL offer for under 200 million and without a no-trade clause?
    The Angels blew that deal out of the water.

    Now David Schoenfield on ESPN.com is writing that in lieu of the Pujols signing, Seattle should consider trading Felix Hernandez because they likely won’t compete with Texas and Anaheim now.

    That’s up for debate, I suppose.

  121. Raul Says:

    Crap.

    Not in lieu…i mean’t in light

  122. Cameron Says:

    Last offer I heard was 10/220, they were negotiating no-trade.

  123. Raul Says:

    I also meant “meant”…not “mean’t”

    All sorts of mistakes tonight.
    Just like an AJ Burnett outing.

    (Jon Stewart voice)
    BOOM!….BOOM!….

  124. John Says:

    “I can no longer denounce the relevance of twitter. It broke the story of my trade…to me”

    -Craig Breslow

  125. Bob Says:

    Ryan Westmoreland first few at bats.
    1. One walk
    2. Hit by pitch
    3. Two groundouts
    4. One strike out
    5. The kid is playing ball. Outstanding

  126. John Says:

    By the way –

    Go Navy, Beat Army!

  127. Bob Says:

    Along those line: Who wins the Heisman?

  128. John Says:

    Well, my vote is for Montee Ball, who has reached the end zone more times than any college football player ever not named Barry effing Sanders.

    But, my understanding is that it’s basically Luck’s award to lose.

  129. Bob Says:

    Shit, my understanding is that this is a 6-player race.

  130. Bob Says:

    BTW, MLB has reinstated Manny. Still needs to be signed, then sit for 50 games.

  131. John Says:

    @129, maybe you’re right, I’m basically just basing it off media exposure.

    But when only Barry Sanders has scored more than you…that’s pretty good, right? Of course, Ball has shared the spotlight with Russell Wilson, who was considered a viable Heisman choice before that Hail Mary loss to the Spartans…

  132. Bob Says:

    Could an arguemnt not be made for the best player on the best team?

  133. John Says:

    I mean, last year with Cam Newton, that was certainly the case.

    But without him, Auburn slipped out of the top-25 this year, right?

    Not sure who the best overall performer is for LSU, but it seems like they could lose one guy and still be alright.

    Again, just general impressions.

  134. Bob Says:

    Fair enough. LSU’s candidate is Tyrann Mathieu.

  135. Bob Says:

    Here is a great line. Manny did not retire, he was merely taking maternity leave.

  136. Raul Says:

    lol @ bob

  137. Bob Says:

    Furcal signed a 2-year deal with the Cardinals.

  138. Cameron Says:

    And there goes yet another one of Milwaukee’s options at shortstop. Melvin narrowed it down to Furcal, Gonzalez, or bringing back Yuni.

  139. John Says:

    The Brewers signed Alex Gonzalez already.

    No reason to sign Yuni. He’s just Alex Gonzalez with a lead glove.

  140. Cameron Says:

    Oh they did. That’s… Not signing Yuni.

  141. Chuck Says:

    As a ten and five guy, Pujols didn’t need a no trade with St. Louis.

  142. Chuck Says:

    “Seattle should consider trading Felix Hernandez because they likely won’t compete with Texas and Anaheim now.”

    Just like Tampa can’t compete with New York and Boston?

    You win in Seattle with pitching and defense.

    You have one of the top five pitchers in baseball, and if Hultzen pans out and if Tijuan Walker pans out and if Michael Pineda stays consistent, they’ll have the best staff in the AL.

    Felix isn’t going anywhere.

  143. John Says:

    Well, Seattle’s focus is definitely pitching and defense.

    “Winning” with it has been something of a struggle.

  144. Jim Says:

    Yanks win the Hiroyuki Nakajima sweepstakes.

  145. Cameron Says:

    They won it last week, Jim.

  146. Cameron Says:

    “You have one of the top five pitchers in baseball, and if Hultzen pans out and if Tijuan Walker pans out and if Michael Pineda stays consistent, they’ll have the best staff in the AL.

    Felix isn’t going anywhere.”

    And if Ichiro stays healthy for a couple years, Death to Flying Things stays Death to Flying Things, and Robinson gets anywhere close to his ceiling, that outfield might be better defensively than Anaheim’s.

  147. John Says:

    …well, this is kinda heart-breaking…

  148. Raul Says:

    The Heisman Trophy is among the most meaningless awards in sports.

  149. Chuck Says:

    Ben Badler of Baseball America reports that Ryan Braun has tested positive for PEDS.

    Reports of John Bowen taking hostages premature.

  150. brautigan Says:

    …will it ever end?

    I mean, seriously. Give these guys a time peroid, tell them, if you test positive you’re out of the game for good. None of this 50 day suspension crap. You KNOW what you’re putting in your body, it isn’t a mistake, and if you choose to juice, you run the risk of having your profession permantly removed.

  151. Raul Says:

    “Ben Badler of Baseball America reports that Ryan Braun has tested positive for PEDS”

    …….

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  152. Cameron Says:

    And the test (and subsequent retest that confirmed the results) were conducted during the playoffs. No wonder he was doing so well.

  153. John Says:

    Actually, the subsequent test is reported to have been negative.

    I can’t be objective here, I just can’t.

    At least one source is reporting that Braun will be found innocent.

  154. Raul Says:

    I hope Braun is clean.

    But I still think this is hilarious.

    BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE CLEAN NOW!

    Anyway, even if he is found clean, I want to know what the hell set off the positive test.

  155. Cameron Says:

    He’s going to an arbitration to determine his innocence. However, no one’s gotten a suspension overturned before.

    However, the fact he’s trying to appeal it at all is kinda curious. Most guys say they took some unknown medication (latin pharmacies do not have quality control after all), never heard of anyone going to arbitration to overturn it.

    What could it have been short of steroids? My guess is some over-the-counter supplement athletes use for their workouts. I’ve heard of stuff (I think it might be Charger, I’m not sure), that’s an over-the-counter testosterone supplement that, to my knowledge, is not a banned substance.

  156. John Says:

    Well, it wasn’t actually steroids – it was synthetic testosterone.

    Not that that would be any better.

    Man, I hope he’s innocent.

  157. Cameron Says:

    The hell you think steroids are John? Lollipops? It’s the same shit.

  158. Chuck Says:

    “At least one source is reporting that Braun will be found innocent.”

    Yeah, Ryan Braun himself.

    LOL.

  159. Chuck Says:

    Braun’s agent isn’t denying he took something, just the test results.

    The fact there is no denial on him taking something is the smoking gun.

  160. John Says:

    Seems like there’s some pretty adamant denial going on, actually.

  161. Cameron Says:

    He admits he’s taking something, but the fact he’s appealing makes me think it might be something that isn’t in violation of the drug policy. If that’s his case, certainly I understand where he’s coming from. Then again, Edinson Volquez didn’t know what he was taking violated the drug policy either.

    Guys, check what you’re taking.

  162. Raul Says:

    It’s not like you walk into a pharmacy in a spanish-speaking country and they just give you a bunch of pills or syringes and you walk away and you don’t know what you’re taking.

    Players know what they’re taking. They know what they’re asking for.

    The times where a kid can plead ignorance is when he’s trying to get signed and is young. I actually have seen, in person, a 17 year old pitcher in the Dominican Republic get injected with a substance that he was told was a “muscle relaxer”. Was it? It probably was. But I don’t know. I didn’t read the label and the kid who got the shot didn’t read the label and he wouldn’t have known what the hell it was anyway unless he looked up the drug’s name online. It’s a situation where these young players have people that feed them and supply them with everything they need and they are a bit naive.

    But a guy like Ryan Braun, in the US…a kid who went to college and is somewhat educated…if he took something, I would bet it was deliberate.

  163. Cameron Says:

    I know, but at the same time, I’ve seen multiple guys from multiple pharmacies (Dominican, Puerto Rican, Mexican) these pharmacies give out stuff that trips steroid tests without trying. It’s ridiculous how this gets set off on such a frequent basis.

    As for Braun, either it’s gonna be an actual steroid or a supplement that’s only gonna be legal until they revise the policy.

  164. Raul Says:

    Navy beat Army.

    John’s gotta be happy about that.

  165. Mike Felber Says:

    You present the possibilities well Cam.

  166. Cameron Says:

    Interesting tidbit.

    “Albert Pujols’ new ten-year contract with the Angels will keep him with the team for another ten years after it expires. MLB.com’s Alden Gonzalez reports that the deal will keep him on board as a consultant to owner Arte Moreno for a decade after his playing days are over.”

    Now that’s something that’d help me sign a deal. Not only am I getting 34 million dollars more than my next-best offer, but I’ve got absolute job security, but it’s job security for TWENTY years, not ten. All of a sudden, Albert to Anaheim makes so much more sense.

    Also, St. Louis is trying to sign Carlos Beltran. My guess is have Beltran in right and have Berkman go back to first to try and offset losing Albert. I wouldn’t mind that approach, actually. Mostly I’d just like to see Beltran, Berkman, and Holliday be that lineup’s core, but it really helps ease the pain, and cheaper than Albert too.

  167. Raul Says:

    The Red Sox are prepping Daniel Bard to be — a starter.

  168. Chuck Says:

    Every single baseball player is aware of exactly which drugs or exactly which components of said drugs can cause a positive, and in what content.

    If you don’t pay attention or don’t read the handouts distributed at spring training, that’s your own fault.

    You can’t piss a positive then say you didn’t know what was in the supplements you were taking.

    You’re a professional athlete at the top of your game and make gazllions of dollars with the physical (and mental) condition of your body being the primary factor.

    And, yet, you expect us Everyday Joe’s to believe you’re taking something without knowing what’s in it?

    If Braun or anyone else REALLY believes that, then they’re fucking stupid.

  169. Raul Says:

    Well Chuck…

    It looks like sometimes athletes want the “dumb jock” stereotype. It’s an excuse for them.

  170. Chuck Says:

    True, but it doesn’t work anymore.

    We’re ten years past the Congressional hearings and Sammy Sosa forgetting how to speak English and Miguel Tejada blaming his agent and Roger Clemens blaming his wife.

    Every conceivable excuse has been used already.

    Your agent already confirmed you’re taking the stuff but is claiming faulty results.

    Just man up and admit it already, denying something everyone knows to be true isn’t helping.

    When this is all said and done and even if the test proves your innocence, the fact you lied about taking the stuff will do more harm to your reputation than the accusations will.

  171. John Says:

    “Your agent already confirmed you’re taking the stuff but is claiming faulty results.”

    He did not even remotely confirm that.

    His exact words were that the results of the second (negative) test will CONFIRM HIS INNOCENCE.

    Obviously, it’s his agent, so what he says matters very little in this whole process. But let’s not be saying that his agent confirmed that Braun was cheating. Quite the contrary.

    Please be innocent Brauny.

  172. Raul Says:

    Is there a statistic that normalizes what Ryan Brauns’s season would have looked like without steroids?

    Work on it and lemme find out.

  173. Chuck Says:

    With John’s affection for Braun and the Brewers, probably not a good place to try and have a objective discussion on the subject.

    I don’t care anymore, honestly.

    I’m neither surprise nor disappointed in the story, and my feelings would be the same for the other 749 guys in the majors.

    It’s hard to call 2011 Braun’s best season, and he’s put up good numbers every years since his rookie season.

    So, either;

    a) he’s been taking them all along

    b) he’s pissed because he won’t be able to take them anymore

    c) it really was a bad test.

  174. Chuck Says:

    “A spokesman for Braun confirmed the positive test Saturday and issued a statement: “There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan’s complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. While Ryan has impeccable character and no previous history, unfortunately, because of the process we have to maintain confidentiality and are not able to discuss it any further, but we are confident he will ultimately be exonerated.”

    Read that quote and convince me the “spokesman for Braun” wasn’t admitting he was taking something.

  175. John Says:

    “With John’s affection for Braun and the Brewers, probably not a good place to try and have a objective discussion on the subject.”

    Fair enough.

    “It’s hard to call 2011 Braun’s best season, and he’s put up good numbers every years since his rookie season.”

    And that’s what gets me.

    Braun set a rookie record for slugging percentage.

    He won 3 straight silver sluggers before this year.

    I think 2011 was his best overall performance, but it wasn’t THAT MUCH better than his other years, at least with the bat.

    During a time period where he supposedly would have passed ~6 drug tests, Braun hit .307/.364/.554.

    The way I see it, he’s either been using since the beginning OR this was a bad test.

    Of course, this raises the question: how did he get caught this time, and not the other times?

  176. Raul Says:

    HGH Testing starts next year.

    Let’s see what happens to Jose Bautista’s season in 2012.

  177. Raul Says:

    Quick question…

    For probably most of the last decade, one could argue that the best players at a given time were Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols or Alex Rodriguez.

    Today it’s reasonable to say it’s Albert Pujols. But who is #2? And perhaps more debatable, who is #3?

  178. John Says:

    In terms of year-in, year out excellence, I’d say Miggy.

  179. Bob Says:

    I would go with Miggy as well for #2. I assume we are excluding pitchers. Mull #3 over with my bacon and onion pizza tonight.

  180. Bob Says:

    Today??? Possibly Kemp.

  181. Bob Says:

    Just a question. Does a Selig family member own a portion of the Brewers?

  182. Chuck Says:

    “His exact words were that the results of the second (negative) test will CONFIRM HIS INNOCENCE.”

    For a test to be considered faulty, the ORIGINAL sample has to be re-tested.

    Providing a separate sample a week later is meaningless.

  183. John Says:

    Ok, in the last 24 hours, we’ve learned:

    - The thing Braun tested positive wasn’t a PED.
    - Braun tested negative on a re-test.
    - Braun’s first test was an absurdly high level, which has never been seen before, ever, on any test (or even half).

    Trying to be objective here guys, I really am.

    But at the rate we’re going, by tomorrow we’re going to be learning that Rafael Palmeiro fixed the results himself to raise his own HOF chances by comparison.

  184. Raul Says:

    31-0 Packers.

    Al Davis just punched the Devil in the mouth.

    LOL @ another Tuck Rule-ish situation against the Raiders

  185. John Says:

    And this time, Charles Woodson is on our side!

  186. John Says:

    I think this should remain Packers ball…

  187. Raul Says:

    Raiders were totally screwed against the Patriots though.

  188. John Says:

    Haha, Raul…right on cue, they’re showing the tuck rule play on Brady.

    Charles Woodson was the one who forced what would’ve been a fumble.

  189. John Says:

    @187, I agree.

  190. Raul Says:

    Agree.
    Should be Packers ball.

  191. John Says:

    This one, I might need a rule clarification.

    It doesn’t look like any part of Mitchell’s body touched down in bounce in the end zone with the ball, right?

    How did they overturn that? (sorry, no sound)

  192. Raul Says:

    I just want to see if the Packers will score 70 points on the Raiders tonight.

  193. John Says:

    My opponent is starting Aaron Rodgers…so I’m hoping the Packers bench him with the game now comfortably in hand.

  194. John Says:

    *fantasy opponent, of course.

  195. Raul Says:

    Cowboys vs Giants tonight.

    You know what that means?

    It means it’s gonna be a showdown.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t2GgN_RC7M

  196. Cameron Says:

    “Just a question. Does a Selig family member own a portion of the Brewers?”

    I think whatever Bud didn’t sell to Attanasio went to Bud’s daughter.

  197. John Says:

    Wendy Selig Prieb has no job with the team, to the very best of my knowledge.

    Good thing too, because she sucked.

    No idea if she still owns a share.

  198. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 197 – As far as I know she has not had a thing to do with the Brewers for years. She moved to Arizona after the sale of the team to Mark Attanasio.

    Although her husband Laurel Prieb still has a job working for MLB with daddy.

  199. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 115 – Reno needs a first baseman since they lost Wily Mo Pena during the ‘11 season, Juan Miranda just signed with Tampa and Andy Tracy will be managing A ball for the Phillies.

  200. Mike Felber Says:

    Someone could start taking & NOT have an appreciable result, & for many reasons.

    Some do not respond as much to drugs, folks respond differently to various combinations, & some like Bonds take a few years to maximize the results/gain superiority with essentially their new body.

    Chuck, these are contradictory statements:

    Every single baseball player is aware of exactly which drugs or exactly which components of said drugs can cause a positive, and in what content.

    If you don’t pay attention or don’t read the handouts distributed at spring training, that’s your own fault.

    The dumb joke stereotype is not merely an excuse & refuge. Some act that way, & there have been times when perfectly legal supplements have been contaminated with things like precursor hormones.

    though huge levels of a non-steroid component may well be a testing error. Many times we cannot know for reasonably sure if a guy tried to cheat. Though if it is a substance unlikely to have helped, it may be a testing fluke. I dunno yet.

    I am waiting for a gut to test for outlier T-levels, & claim he has giant or even 3 testicles! Then we need to make sure that he is not wearing a prosthetic in the follow up examination…

  201. Raul Says:

    Bless Mike.

    This guy is the most naive man on the planet.

  202. John Says:

    @200, that’s essentially what happened.

    No person on any test in any sport has ever registered a testosterone level even half of what Braun registered.

    If I blew a 0.9 on a breathalizer, the logical conclusion probably wouldn’t be “wow, you must have drank 18 four loco’s” but rather “shit, maybe this devise is screwy.”

  203. Cameron Says:

    Either that or Braun knows a guy at a lab who’s REALLY good at his night job.

  204. Chuck Says:

    “Chuck, these are contradictory statements:

    Every single baseball player is aware of exactly which drugs or exactly which components of said drugs can cause a positive, and in what content.

    If you don’t pay attention or don’t read the handouts distributed at spring training, that’s your own fault.”

    No, they’re not.

  205. JohnBowen Says:

    Brewers have agreed to terms on a 3-year deal with Aramis Ramirez.

    Hopefully, he won’t spend 50 days in the 3-hole.

  206. Chuck Says:

    He has to spend 50 days in the 3-hole to replace the a-hole.

  207. Cameron Says:

    There’s still 112 days of cleanup from him, worst-case scenario. Pretty good.

  208. Chuck Says:

    The Brewers were hot after Ramirez anyway, so the signing doesn’t have anything to do with Braun.

    It’s more of a Fielder replacement, if anything.

  209. Cameron Says:

    And now I think the first baseman next year might be Casey McGehee. I think he can play first.

    Also, Takashi Saito is now a D-Back. I can’t believe the guy’s still as effective as he is at his age.

  210. Chuck Says:

    “And now I think the first baseman next year might be Casey McGehee. I think he can play first”

    The guy’s fatter than Prince, not sure he can bend over far enough to scoop a ball out of the dirt.

    The Brewers signed Travis Ishikawa today, so it’s probably him or Gamel, with Mike Rivera playing against lefties.

  211. Cameron Says:

    I’d take McGehee over Gamel. The worst I’ve seen out of Casey is still better than the best I’ve ever seen out of Gamel.

  212. JohnBowen Says:

    Mat Gamel is going to be the starting 1B, with Casey getting occasional starts against lefties.

    Gamel has all of 200 career PA’s, most of which happened 3 years ago.

    Make no mistake – defense has been the factor keeping Gamel at AAA.

  213. Cameron Says:

    Still, it’s kinda sad when Gamel has legitimate competition for his job with Travis freakin’ Ishikawa.

  214. Brautigan Says:

    Ishikawa at least knows what to do with a glove. Unlike Gamel, he knows how it fits on his right hand.

  215. Brautigan Says:

    I see Jerome Williams is back with Angels. I like Jerome.

    Chuck, if you get a chance, ask Jerome about playing ball in Taiwan. And if you’re bold enough, ask about Mario Encarnacion.

  216. Cameron Says:

    Jerome Williams, the best Hawaiian-Chinese-Portuguese-Spanish-Japanese-Norwegian-African-Filipino-American player ever.

  217. Cameron Says:

    I just realized, is the NBA the only sport with a maximum contract length for its players?

  218. Raul Says:

    Silly Cameron.

    Everyone knows Benny Agbayani is the best Hawaiian player ever.

  219. Chuck Says:

    “Chuck, if you get a chance, ask Jerome about playing ball in Taiwan. And if you’re bold enough, ask about Mario Encarnacion.”

    Should there be a chain link fence between us?

  220. Chuck Says:

    So much for that…

    Brewers just traded Casey McGeehee.

  221. JohnBowen Says:

    Yeah.

    I wish we could’ve eeked out a better return, but we were trading Casey at an all-time low.

    He was probably the worst regular 3B in the game last year.

  222. Cameron Says:

    Hawaiian? Yes. Hawaiian-Chinese-Portuguese-Spanish-Japanese-Norwegian-African-Filipino-American? No.

  223. Cameron Says:

    Jose Veras. Hit-or-miss with him. 3.80 ERA… But a 10.0 K/9.

  224. Chuck Says:

    Casey McGeehee sucks dog balls.

    You know those Viagra commercials where it says to call the doctor if you have a boner longer than four hours?

    McGeehee lost his phone, and ended up with a boner for a whole year.

    Now he gets to compete for the third base job in Pittsburgh with Pedro Alvarez.

    Loser gets the job in Indianapolis.

  225. brautigan Says:

    No. I don’t think that is necessary (the chain link fence). But it is one creepy story.

  226. Raul Says:

    I think it’s a fair criticism that the BBWAA refuses to strip players of awards yet punishes those same players when it comes to the Hall of Fame.

  227. Raul Says:

    Old Hoss Radbourn:

    This R. Braun fiasco is precisely the reason I made sure to test positive only for performance decreasers, like opuim and syphilis.

    — This guy is fantastic.

  228. Bob Says:

    The Phillies are nearing a deal with Dontrelle Willis. If it comes to fruition, that has to cement the ending of Oswalt’s career with them!!! I’m kidding

  229. Cameron Says:

    The Orioles are nearing a deal with Tsuyoshi Wada. The guy looks like one of the better pitchers in NPB on paper, but when you figure in his stuff, I’m not too excited. A lefty who throws in the mid-80s… Against AL East bats… In Camden.

    Gets your gloves folks, this is gonna be a doozy.

  230. Raul Says:

    Willis was one of the faces of MLB. He was in commercials everywhere.
    Dude peaked early though.

  231. Raul Says:

    Kei Igawa @ Cameron.

  232. Cameron Says:

    Wada’s fastest pitch is Igawa’s slowest, Raul. Guy’s a Japanese Jamie Moyer.

  233. Brautigan Says:

    Will Boston sign Joe Saunders now that Arizona declined his option?

  234. Chuck Says:

    Braut,

    #229

  235. Brautigan Says:

    Boston was asking Arizona about Joe Saunders before they didn’t pick up his option. I would think Saunders would do much better in 1) San Diego or 2) San Francisco.

    Of course, Mel Parnell did fine in Boston, as did Bill Lee. And neither one of those guys were flame throwers.

  236. Brautigan Says:

    WhOoPs. It looks like Arizona is going to try and re-sign both Saunders and Micah Owings.

  237. Chuck Says:

    Saunders’ agent has already received a call from the Mets, plus he’s on the Red Sox radar too.

    With the acquisition of Cahill, I don’t think the Dbacks are going to bend over backwards to sign Saunders, unless he gives up some cabbage.

  238. Chuck Says:

    Willis’ deal with Philly official.

    Reds have signed former Yankees first round bust Andrew Brackman to a one year major league contract.

  239. Bob Says:

    The Sox signed Kelly Shoppach. That should end Vartitek’s Sox career.

  240. Raul Says:

    Yankees won’t be bidding on Darvish.

    But if Darvish plays his cards right, he could get an autographed baseball from Derek Jeter.

  241. Brautigan Says:

    Dolph Camilli, who was a pretty good baseball player back in the 30’s and early 40’s, had a brother that was a pro boxer. I did not know that. I also did not know that his brother, Frankie Campbell, was killed boxing against Max Baer in 1930.

    1) You learn something new everyday if you pay attention.
    2) So, that means Jethro Bodine’s father killed Dolph Camilli’s brother. You just can’t make this stuff up.

  242. Lefty33 Says:

    I assume that the Phils signed Willis to be a LOOGY in the pen along with Bastardo and that he won’t be anywhere near the rotation.

    Charlie last year said numerous times that he wanted a second LHP in the pen but there really was no one to go and get and they have nothing internally in the minors that makes sense and no I don’t buy into the Lazarus-like Joe Savery as a real option on the major league level either.

    Low risk at only a million and the only real down side is that I would assume that one of the kids like Aumont, Schwimer or De Fratus will now start the season in AAA as opposed to getting a chance at a job out of ST.

  243. Chuck Says:

    Maybe the Phils signed Willis to teach Domonic Brown how to hit.

  244. Jim Says:

    I hope Varitek retires, rather than try to catch on with another team.

  245. Hossrex Says:

    *single tear*

    The Angels? Damn you Chuck… You promised me two years ago that he’d resign with the cards, and I trusted you. :( I let my guard down, and Arte snuck under my radar and snagged the second most prolific (notice I didn’t say “best”) batter since Hitler emigrated to Argentina.

    It’s all your fault Chuck.

    Damn you.

    I live in central California… can you imagine the crap I’m getting for this?

    First Arte takes advantage of Fox NEEDING to sell, and snagging Vlady Daddy… now it’s Arte taking advantage of Frankie NEEDING to sell, and snagging Prince Albert.

    This is the difference between an owner who sets, as his top priority, winning… versus an owner who puts, as his top priority, his wife’s coif.

    I think what major league baseball most needs is a person who’s job is exclusively to consider the best interest of THE GAME, and who’s specifically responsible for selecting appropriate owners, and making sure the 30 hand selected owners all understand that while there is clearly a fortune to be made in successfully operating an MLB franchise, the top priority must be on maintaining the integrity of the game, because while it may be initially less profitable, it’s necessary to put yourself aside in favor of the sport, to make sure there IS a game to profit from in the future.

    *whispered exposition*

    Seriously? That’s specifically what Bud Selig is responsible for? Well. At least history will remember all his mistakes, and use him as a lesson to future commissioners, and how NOT to… commission.

    *more whispered exposition*

    Seriously? The Hall of Fucking Fame?

    What the fuck?

  246. John Says:

    I’m fairly sure there will still be a game when Bud’s all finished.

    A way more successful, popular, and profitable game than when he took over.

  247. Hossrex Says:

    Successful and profitable are not synonymous with sustainable.

    The store keeper who makes every effort to gouge his customers will INEVITABLY make a lot of money.

    Until he finally takes things so far as to make his customers aware of his business practices. Then they all leave to shop at a store where the owner is less obviously bending them over his counter.

    History is replete with examples of people who let their hubris guide them, only to have god shove a lightning bolt up his ass as his house of greedy cards comes crashing down. That’s basically every story in that best selling book about the guy who had the zombie son who came back and spent hundreds of years telling his followers to destroy the sum knowledge of mankind.

    If you think baseball is better today than it was 20 years ago in ANY WAY except marketing, you’re retarded.

  248. Cameron Says:

    Bud Selig may have done a lot to change baseball, but he won’t be singlehandedly responsible for the death of baseball. The MLB’s too well-off for that to happen. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s hurting.

    And baseball now compared to baseball in the 80s? I’ll take baseball now.

  249. Lefty33 Says:

    “Then they all leave to shop at a store where the owner is less obviously bending them over his counter.”

    BUT, where your analogy is incorrect is right in that statement.

    If you are a fan of Baseball there is no other store to go to.

    While lots of people have lost interest in MLB and only care about the NFL or stupid “sports” like hockey or soccer if you just intrinsically like Baseball there is no other alternative and that’s what Bud or anyone else that occupies the Commissioner’s throne knows.

    College baseball is to a point unwatchable (ping!) and while minor league baseball is great for a lot of people it’s not their cup of tea so they’ll will always stick with MLB regardless of some wonkish financial issues that the overwhelming majority or fans could care less about and/or are ignorant of the details of.

    “If you think baseball is better today than it was 20 years ago in ANY WAY except marketing, you’re retarded.”

    No actually you’re retarded because 20 years ago you had the beginnings of the Roid Ball era right after the end of the Steve Howe Coke Ball era. So yes Baseball is better today than 20 years ego because your watching a version of the sport which is light years cleaner and more honest than what it once was.

    While chicks may dig the longball I’ll take natural talent versus natural talent instead of watching Hulk Hogan pitch to Lou Ferrigno.

  250. hossrex Says:

    Theres a difference between what a person is responsible for, and what a person is the CAUSE of.

    Bud is literally corporate CEO, which means he damn well IS “responsible” for anything and everything that happens in baseball, which he would be the first to agree if we were on the subject of the GOOD things which have happened in the game over the last twenty years.

    To sum up my point without calling anyone else a retard, please point to whats better about the game than twenty years ago.

    The controversy? The steroids? The over-reaction, while simultaneous ineffectivness of MLB’s response to the steroid “problem”? The blandness of what MLB considers appropriate?

    Which parts are better?

    The sad thing is the only thing REALLY different about the game is the increased offense, which everyone always LOVES until i bring it up in the context of steroids, and then the morons always pretend they hate increased offense, until i then ask something like “how is the game better today”, when they cite, as a primary motivator, the improved offense.

    So.

    All of that in mind.

    Please define the positive aspects of the game, without crediting steroids, the environment they created, or anything else which Bud has previously demonized in the past (because if you’ll open your eyes for a minute, you’ll notice how adroit Bud is at reaping the benefits of something while simultaneously crying out against it).

    So proving me wrong should be simple.

    Just tell me what you like about the game, but make sure it isn’t something Bud hasn’t pretended to lobby against in the past.

    If you can’t answer that simple question, either the game ISN’T better today, or if it IS better, its either better IN SPITE of Bud, or its something Bud has PUBLICALLY railed against, but secretly desires to continue (i.e. steroids).

    Seriously.

    One thing which is better now, which Bud has lauded as important.

    Interleague play? The fucked up 5 game division series? World series home field determined by a scrimage game no one SHOULD take seriously? The continual problem of free agency and draft compensation (which hasnt changed a lick in the newest labor agreement).

    Please EXPLAIN how Bud is a good commissioner without just stating that Bud is a good commissioner.

    I’ll wager that even if you can do it, you’ll have a harder time than you’ll expect.

  251. hossrex Says:

    Lefty: baseball is entertainment.

    To suppose that it exisits in an entertainment vacuum is to keep your head buried in a hole of convenience.

    Little league. High school. College. Rock and roll. Cinema. A good steak. Porno.

    These are all things a less astute person would forget are competitors of major league baseball, but to think they arent all directly stealing attention (i.e. money) from MLB, you’re one of those “useful idiots” (not an insultwho just trust what they’re,

  252. hossrex Says:

    Damit. My girlfriends new Nook is REALLY annoyong.

    Anyway…

    If then… “useful idiot” (not an insult, look up the origin of the phrase) who just assumes everything which theyve been told is true.

    Stop believing liars.

  253. hossrex Says:

    Lefty: “twenty years ago the gamewas filthy with coke, now its clean.”

    Seriously.

    Seriously?

    If you think major league baseball players, with literally MILLIONS of dollars on the line, ARENT using EVERY advantage at their disposal, regardless of YOUR morality, then you REALLY should reconsider how you view competitors.

    How naive would YOU think someone was, if they said to you people didnt lie, because language was the fundamental communicator, and a civilization CANT exist without honest communication?

    How naive is that person, why, and how is that different from what youre doing?

  254. Lefty33 Says:

    “To sum up my point without calling anyone else a retard, please point to whats better about the game than twenty years ago.”

    First off you used the retard calling card first not me and again, duh, the game is now actually for the most part cleaner that it’s been ever been.

    No Roids, No Coke, and that is reflected by the decreased offensive numbers.

    “The controversy? The steroids? The over-reaction, while simultaneous ineffectivness of MLB’s response to the steroid “problem”? The blandness of what MLB considers appropriate?

    Which parts are better?”

    The fact that again you’re actually watching more natural ability versus natural ability instead of a bunch of guys who look more like Triple H.

    “The sad thing is the only thing REALLY different about the game is the increased offense”

    When you’re saying increased offense in what context do you mean?

    Versus 10 years ago offense is way, way down and is coming back down more every year to ‘91 levels.

    This year 16 teams scored 700 or more runs.
    In 2000 every team in the league scored at least 700 runs.

    Teams scored 2,681 more runs in ‘11 than in ‘91.
    Teams scored 5,072 more runs in ‘01 than in ‘91.

    “Please define the positive aspects of the game, without crediting steroids, the environment they created”

    It’s impossible to take the steroid equation of the mix because it actually happened. You can’t just pretend it didn’t and pick and choose.

    There are no “what if’s”.

    “If you can’t answer that simple question, either the game ISN’T better today, or if it IS better,”

    Better than when?

    Twenty years ago? Without a doubt it’s better than twenty years ago.

    If you want to delve back into history more than that it would change the answer.

    But as for ten to twenty years ago when drugs of some type were prevelant and most teams were playing in cookie cutter multi-purpose turf stadiums, yeah of course the sport is better off and you would be either blind, ignorant, or too young to not know the difference if you can’t see that.

    “Interleague play?”

    Interleague play has been hugely successful and the record of that speaks for itself. People don’t bitch and moan about AFC and NFC teams playing during the season so why is it any different in Baseball.

    Let me guess, tradition?

    Fuck tradition.

    Bud took a page out of the playbook of every other major sport where the fans don’t give a shit about a team from one league/division/conference playing a team from another league/division/conference and if anything it should have been done sooner.

    And guess what?

    It’s never going to go away so either grow up and accept it or learn to like bowling or something else that like eight other people watch.

    “Please EXPLAIN how Bud is a good commissioner without just stating that Bud is a good commissioner.”

    I would never say that Bud has been a good Commissioner.

    What he has been is a great businessman.

    He made money before he ever became part of anything to do with baseball.

    He made a ton of money owning the Brewers.

    He’s made a ton of money for himself, the owners, and the players during his time as Commissioner.

    All those things are why the owners and players want nothing to do with him retiring after the season because they made out well with him in charge and his record of keeping labor peace since since ‘94 while in the mean time every other major sport has had a lockout/strike/missed games is truly laudable.

    He’s had plenty of screw ups dealing with non-economic things like the All-Star Game’s “importance” or the glacial response to forming a real drug testing policy only after Congress drilled and grilled him while threatening the sports anti-trust exemption.

    Has he been a great Commissioner?

    No, but he also hasn’t been a total sleaze like Uberroth was.

    I’m not going to defend him nor am I going to rip him because his record speaks for itself and neither your opinion nor mine mean a hill of shit.

    Like it or not the fact is that he has been a great businessman for the sport and he has done far more right than wrong and he will be inducted into the HOF because of it.

  255. Lefty33 Says:

    “Lefty: baseball is entertainment.”

    Wrong, baseball is a business.

    And as long as revenues increase and everyone’s bottom line is increasingly black then nothing will change.

    “To suppose that it exisits in an entertainment vacuum is to keep your head buried in a hole of convenience.”

    It exists in it’s own vacuum in that if you want to see the sport played at it’s highest level it’s the only place to go. They have a monopoly on the product.

    If you want the best steak you could argue about Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris, Peter Lugar, or a local place.

    If you want the best baseball there is only one place.

    High School or College? Really? With the aluminum bats?
    It’s not even the same game.

    “These are all things a less astute person would forget are competitors of major league baseball, but to think they arent all directly stealing attention (i.e. money) from MLB,”

    Based on MLB’s continued increasing attendance and revenues for the time being whatever issue you’re trying to come up with is clearly not an issue.

  256. Lefty33 Says:

    “If you think major league baseball players, with literally MILLIONS of dollars on the line, ARENT using EVERY advantage at their disposal, regardless of YOUR morality, then you REALLY should reconsider how you view competitors.”

    First off my morality has nothing to do with this discussion so don’t try that weak ass irrelevant angle.

    Now while you are right that players have Millions on the line the sport as a whole has Billions on the line and if you think that Bud or any future Commissioner is going to risk the sport’s anti-trust exemption and getting embarassed in front of Congress again by not being on top of any potential drug issues then it shows how naive you are.

    While I agree that you cannot test for everything the days and culture of guys openly getting injected in the club house with who-knows-what or openly snorting/licking/sticking who-knows-what into themselves are done and gone.

    Every reporter for every media outlet large and small would love nothing more than to out the next A-Roid so while it’s true in theory that guys have millions on the line as their incentive to cheat the risks/public pressure/penalties have never been greater as well.

  257. Mike Felber Says:

    Hi Hoss! I see you are still fire-brandin’ away!

    My brother just got a “dream home” in the Valley. Well, it does not look epic from the outside, a small 3 bedroom, previously he had wanted Spanish style. But it is beautifully appointed, jacuzzi & some nice touches.

    How ’bout we agree that it is idiotic to call anyone an idiot for a difference of opinion? the statement, not the individual. Or we can just be as incendiary as possible…A couple here actually like effing each other verbally, though usually it does not end so “happily”.

    I would point out a difference in premises-that Lefty was referring to the state of the game today, & you his whole legacy over about a generation. The stroid era is often referred to as ending in ‘07. And while their use began in the late ’80’s, like Bonds taking a couple of years to reap the benefits of his new body, you could say the PED era started maybe 7 years before the offense exploded. ‘92 was a ctually a relative pitcher’s year, as it has become today.

    I’ll let you guys argue about your main points. Just will say that neither Hogan nor big Lou could generate much baseball power…you likely know this, that mere muscle is not enough to throw hard or hit far-I am just being a pedant.

    Though I do think that your invocation of “useful idiot” was a bit strained. This concept is used when a propagandist, like a Communist Gov’t, needs to pull one over on the people, like to believe a “big lie” to accomplish some goal effectively Nobody needs to disguise that baseball competes with all types of entertainment, if all are aware things the battle for audience still exists in about the same form & results.

  258. Lefty33 Says:

    “Just will say that neither Hogan nor big Lou could generate much baseball power…you likely know this, that mere muscle is not enough to throw hard or hit far-I am just being a pedant.”

    Damn, Mike it’s only a metaphor. (Hand slaps head over and over.)

    I’ve seen Hogan throw out a first pitch and my mother could probably throw harder.

  259. John Says:

    Prelude…I’m gonna echo a lot of Lefty’s points…

    Hossrex: “The store keeper who makes every effort to gouge his customers will INEVITABLY make a lot of money.

    Until he finally takes things so far as to make his customers aware of his business practices. Then they all leave to shop at a store where the owner is less obviously bending them over his counter.”

    I dare you to find me the person who is so put off by Bud’s “business practices” that he’s gonna resort to watching an alternative form of baseball.

    Some people wanna see grown men slug regular fastballs over 280 foot-away fences with aluminum bats. Those people are not typical baseball fans.

    Bud has recognized what the typical baseball fan wants and has pegged us fucking perfectly, as a group.

    Lefty: “But as for ten to twenty years ago when drugs of some type were prevelant and most teams were playing in cookie cutter multi-purpose turf stadiums, yeah of course the sport is better off and you would be either blind, ignorant, or too young to not know the difference if you can’t see that.”

    Exactly. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Lefty: “Interleague play has been hugely successful and the record of that speaks for itself. People don’t bitch and moan about AFC and NFC teams playing during the season so why is it any different in Baseball.”

    Ditto.

    Lefty: “I would never say that Bud has been a good Commissioner.
    What he has been is a great businessman.”

    And here’s where I disagree, at least partially.

    Bud has been a good business man. A *great* business man.

    That’s precisely what makes him the best commissioner that this sport has ever known…and it’s not close.

    Related to the average, he has drawn more fans to the game than anyone ever has. Interleague play, wildcards…these things may piss off classic baseball fans but guess what…they’ve made baseball more popular to the average fan. And that’s what matters. That’s where the revenue comes from. And that’s why we’ve guaranteed ourselves of *TWENTY-F-CKING-ONE* YEARS of baseball peace.

    That’s why we’ve guaranteed ourselves of an unprecedented number of years of uninterrupted baseball…which is why Bud Selig is the greatest commissioner the sport has ever known.,

  260. Mike Felber Says:

    No Lefty is closer in a balanced view of biz. vs. the ethical interests & credibility of baseball. Popularity & no labor strikes are important, so is credibility & historical continuity. Like not letting the game turn into a video game, being true to its spirit, balance, & just not allowing massive cheating & disrespect for the rules. And he has been at best disingenuous on many issues.

    Though do not give yourself brain damage Lefty. Of course it was a metaphor-which are most accurately based on things that are directly credible in creating the exaggeration. In this case, I was just stressing for the easily mislead that muscle power does not in itself directly lead to baseball power.

    Yes, i figured that you knew that. if you did not know I knew that from my words, then you were naive in that case. If I REALLY was a pedant, I would point out that it is unlikely Hogan was trying his best, & he could almost certainly could throw harder than your Mother. :-)

  261. hossrex Says:

    Every point made in refutation above is either focused on semantics, my tone (the pussiest argument made by the pussiest pussy who ever sucked a cock), or the bizarre notion that Major League Baseball (emphasis on the proper noun) is the only show in town.

    Watch me prove you wrong in two seconds.

    Not everyone is fucking insane like everyone here, lacking the fundamental ability to find enjoyment in things other than sweaty men swinging oversized phalluses.

    *POOF*

    Two seconds, and your entire argument is made invalid simply by pointing out that not everyone is as stuck on baseball as you are.

    Wanna know what those people (I.E. every-fucking-one-else) do when a form of ENTERTAINMENT (because pointing out that a form of entertainment might be a business is apparently a HUGE revelation to some here) starts to bloat, from combination of age and gluttony, until it becomes a cartoonish caricature of itself?

    They get drunk, watch an Angelina Jolie movie, and fall asleep jerking off.

    Regardless of the truth of the above, would you really call MY (above) statement more unlikely than the statement; “A significant percentage of America needs Major League Baseball so much they won’t simply turn on the television the moment baseball becomes more trouble than it’s worth.”

    And if you don’t think the implied requirement of watching congressional caucuses is “more trouble” than most Jolie-Jerkin’ Jones’ are willing to endure… You have a higher estimation of Americana than do I.

    Masturbation.

  262. Brautigan Says:

    “I dare you to find me the person who is so put off by Bud’s “business practices” that he’s gonna resort to watching an alternative form of baseball.”

    Apparently you missed the 1994 world series.

  263. Chuck Says:

    Quoting the well known philosopher Clark W. Griswold;

    “Merry Christmas and holy shit.”

    Sigh.

  264. Brautigan Says:

    “Bud has recognized what the typical baseball fan wants and has pegged us perfectly, as a group.” John

    “I don’t recall your name but you sure were a sucker for a high inside curve.”
    Bill Dickey

    “It’s morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.” W.C. Fields

  265. John Says:

    “Wanna know what those people (I.E. every-fucking-one-else) do when a form of ENTERTAINMENT (because pointing out that a form of entertainment might be a business is apparently a HUGE revelation to some here) starts to bloat, from combination of age and gluttony, until it becomes a cartoonish caricature of itself?”

    So, baseball is a cartoonish caricature of itself because the Mets play the Yankees and because the Cardinals made the playoffs last year.

    Except, and here’s the crazy thing…it’s MORE popular, MORE successful, and has MORE appeal than at any time in its history.

    Meaning you have to be pretty much insane to find fault in what Bud has done as commissioner.

  266. Brautigan Says:

    I don’t think you know what the meaning of insane is.

  267. Mike Felber Says:

    It seems like many claims & counterarguments are on hyperbole steroids here. But this all or nothing, agree with all I say absent nuance otherwise you are insane childish conceit is closest to insane. Certainly inane.

    Who is enjoying their Holidays? Not an NBA opening day crowd here. Hopefully not mostly a Hornsby, stare out the window until Spring training crowd either!

  268. Cameron Says:

    Hoss, for the record, when I said I prefer baseball now to baseball 20 years ago, I was meaning I watch the on-the-field product of today more and that alone. Whatever the fuck these guys mean is their own deal. Personal preference maybe, but I like the five-tool players and pitchers with actual arsenals rather than just longballs and heaters.

  269. Chuck Says:

    “It seems like many claims & counterarguments are on hyperbole steroids here. But this all or nothing, agree with all I say absent nuance otherwise you are insane childish conceit is closest to insane. Certainly inane.”

    What?

  270. Cameron Says:

    Also, forgot to mention this, but after narrowly missing out in 2008, Drew Brees is now the single-season passing leader in NFL history after last Monday’s game. Congratulations to Mr. Brees. For a guy who entered the league as a backup and who had shoulder injuries so bad him being a player, let alone a star, in the NFL was in question, he’s done pretty damn well.

  271. Mike Felber Says:

    That means calling folks crazy due to matters of opinion is dysfunctional, & the insults instead of nuances arguments where differing opinions are respected is akin to a farcical debate process on steroids. That dynamic is more like insane, definitely inane.

  272. Bob Says:

    The Yankees signed Okijima

  273. Bob Says:

    1. A-Rod had knee treatment in Germany, according to the Post.
    2. Jason Taylor of the Dolphins will retire.

  274. Cameron Says:

    Taylor’s had a hell of a career, hope all goes well for him. As for the Okajima signing… Eh. Deck chairs on the Titanic, if you ask me.

  275. Chuck Says:

    That Brees got within 500 yards of Marino’s record just goes to show how pussified the NFL has become.

    That and the fact Tim Tebow has a uniform.

    Put Marino in today’s game with the touch football rules protecting quarterbacks and with the same receivers and he’d have six thousand.

    Christ.

    Jason Taylor..isn’t that the dude who won Dancing with the Stars?

  276. Bob Says:

    Yes.

  277. Cameron Says:

    He also had another 5,000 yard season in 2008, before the last batch of rule changes. Came within about 200 yards of the record that time.

  278. Cameron Says:

    My bad, within 20 yards.

  279. John Says:

    Normally I like to give Chuck shit when he starts in with his “everything was better back in my day” nonsense, but in this case, he’s absolutely right.

    Drew Brees is a Hall of Fame QB, and he’ll probably go down somewhere as a top 5-10 all-time QB. Outstanding performer. But he’s the second-best QB in his own conference this season…and plus “number of passing yards” isn’t exactly a statistic I put a lot of trust in. I’m far more impressed with his 70+% completion percentage (which will also be a record) or with Aaron Rodgers’ 45-6 TD/INT ratio, which is frankly, nuts. Passing yards are inflated by game situation. Over the weekend, Aaron Rodgers threw for 283 yards, or about 100 fewer than Brees. But Rodgers didn’t throw any picks, completed just under 75% of his passes, and found the end zone 5 times. The fact that he came out of the game for most of the fourth quarter doesn’t take away from what he did before.

    The rules clearly favor passers in a way that makes comparisons from even 10 years ago just crazy. It’s not as much with roughing the QB as it is with the rules protecting receivers; the definition of a defenseless receiver has made it so that, in some cases, you’re basically not allowed to break up a pass. You have to let the receiver catch the ball, because any contact and you’ve hit a defenseless receiver. Even if he has caught the ball, he still has to make an “athletic move” before you can tackle him. Ridiculous.

    “That and the fact Tim Tebow has a uniform.”

    I feel like Tebow and his style of play made a lot more sense 20-30 years ago than it does today.

  280. Cameron Says:

    John, Tebow’s style of play is “fourth quarter miracle comeback”. That’s not a style of play, that’s a fluke. Put him against real competition (Hi Tom Brady) and he gets exposed for the fraud he is.

  281. John Says:

    I mean an excessive reliance on the running game. Might have made sense when the average passing game consisted of 200 yards, or whatever, but in this day and age, it strikes me as very inefficient (obviously, if Tebow’s your QB, it’s your best, um, option).

    Then again, Tebow has basically no weapons out there. I can’t fault a guy too hard when his very best receiver is Eric Decker. Tebow still lacks a pocket presence, and all, but look at what he’s got to work with.

  282. Cameron Says:

    All I can say about Tim Tebow’s play style is Cam Newton does it FAR better. 14 rushing TDs for a QB? Fucking insane, as well as damn near 4,000 passing yards on top of it.

  283. Cameron Says:

    Congratulations to Lastings Milledge for getting a starting job. …For the Yakult Swallows.

  284. Bob Says:

    Shit, if you’re going to swallow something, might as well be Yakult. Google it.

  285. Cameron Says:

    You know what I think Texas might be trying to do with Yu Darvish? I think they may have placed the high bid with no intention of trying to sign him. If they don’t sign him within the negotiating window, Texas gets their money back and Darvish has no time left to negotiate with another team this offseason.

  286. Bob Says:

    Cameron, he can only deal with the Rangers. He may decide he hates Texas right now, and his only other option is Japan, until next year.( 2013)

  287. Cameron Says:

    That’s what I was trying to say, Bob, but from Texas’ point of view. I think they may have put the high bid in to cokblock the rest of the league. Texas doesn’t HAVE to offer him a damn thing.

  288. Bob Says:

    Bullshit. They have to negotiate in good faith. And they will.

  289. Cameron Says:

    I know, but I wouldn’t put it past anyone to purposely stall negotiations or not agree on terms. Do I think they’ll try to sign him? Probably, but this is just something that occurred to me that I honestly wouldn’t be too surprised by.

  290. Chuck Says:

    Texas’ bid for Darvish was more than twice the next highest.

    I think they realize they screwed themselves and could wait two years and get him for a third of the cost.

    I’m betting Darvish doesn’t sign.

  291. Cameron Says:

    Kinda like when Oakland was the only team to bid more then ten for Iwakuma.

  292. Bob Says:

    1. The Rangers have lost in the Series 2 straight years.
    2. The Angels signed C.J. Wilson and Pujols.
    3. The Rangers lost Wilson.
    4. You think Nolan Ryan wants another piece of shity news?
    5. One of the reasons Dice-K took a 6-year dealwas that Japan needed 51.1 million for their economy 5 years ago.
    6. Now look at Japan’s ecomomy minus 4 nuclear reactors.

  293. Chuck Says:

    What does Japan’s economy have to do with Darvish’s bid?

    The Rangers will be a laughingstock if they sign him.

    Next highest bid was in the 27 range.

    Either teams are scared off with the Dice-K thing, or they realize paying that much for a AAA pitcher is stupid.

  294. Cameron Says:

    Bob, the money isn’t paid to Japan, it’s to his team. That may be one of the dumber things I’ve heard in here in a while.

  295. Bob Says:

    The team pays taxes on the bid. This is news?

  296. Cameron Says:

    The only way for that tax to be a notable increase to Japan’s economy would be to tax it more than 100%. Japan has a SHITLOAD of money lying around. Most of it’s ours after buying their electronics.

  297. John Says:

    I mean, the economy has hurt the Japanese team Darvish played for.

    They could certainly use the 50M.

    The economy of Japan will be essentially unaffected by 50 million dollars. That’s like 0.0000001% of their GDP.

  298. John Says:

    Buster Olney is tweeting that the Red Sox have acquired Andrew Bailey from Oakland.

  299. John Says:

    Reddick is part of the package.

  300. Cameron Says:

    Package? I’m reading it’s straight Bailey-for-Reddick.

  301. Bob Says:

    Yeah, I am reading straight up myself.

  302. Bob Says:

    No, there is more. Boston also gets Ryan Sweeney, but is parting with Miles Head and Raul Alcantra.

  303. Cameron Says:

    So lemme see if I can gather what all Oakland’s added into the roster this year.

    Oakland Loses
    -
    Gio Gonzalez
    Trevor Cahill
    Andrew Bailey
    Craig Breslow

    Oakland Gets
    -
    AJ Cole
    Brad Peacock
    Derek Norris
    Tom Milone
    Jarrod Parker
    Colin Cowgill
    Ryan Cook
    Josh Reddick

    …You know, I don’t like these trades individually, but seeing it as a whole package, factoring in the uncertainty with the stadium situation, and knowing they won’t be competing for a few years… It ain’t half-bad.

  304. Cameron Says:

    Really? Ryan Sweeney? The best glove in that outfield?

  305. Bob Says:

    I like this trade for Boston.

  306. Bob Says:

    See you guys tomorrow.

  307. Cameron Says:

    Boston won this trade, as did Washington and Arizona… But again, put the packages together for Oakland and it doesn’t look that bad. That’s about half of a 25-man roster, with most of those guys being ML-ready.

    Sure, not a whole hell of a lot of them are gonna be impact players, but they’re not really bad. As Chuck pointed out earlier, they’re young and team-controlled for years. Cole, Norris, and Parker are the real big ones here. Put them together with guys like the two Michaels, Green, Weeks, and Carter, and there’s potential here.

  308. Chuck Says:

    It doesn’t matter where the A’s play..Oakland, San Jose, Mexico City, the fucking moon; it also doesn’t matter if Billy Beane is the GM or Wile E.Coyote.

    As long as the current ownership group remains the current ownership group, they will NEVER again compete for the postseason.

    And considering Beane is a ten percent owner, you have to include him in that statement.

  309. Cameron Says:

    Ten percent ownership, but you really can’t contribute that as a major part of the operations. He doesn’t have any controlling interest, he really can’t do much, and with the other 90% of ownership keeping income for the team low, that 10% ownership for him really isn’t gonna increase.

    If I’m Billy, I’m saying “fuck this”, selling my 10% and sell my services to an owner that gives a shit.

  310. Jim Says:

    Alcantra is young, 19 and reportedly has electric stuff. A few years from now we may wonder what the Sox were thinking trading the kid for Baily. Or Raul may be parking cars and coaching Little League. Crap shoot.

    Good deal for the Sox, though they still need a right hand hitting OFer.

  311. brautigan Says:

    Oakland is a win-win situation for Billy Beane. They win games, they’ll say “Billy Beane is a good general manager”. They lose games, they’ll say “How can you expect Billy Beane to win games with the number of limitations that exist”.

    Why leave that? Talk about low expectations. AND, you get to act like a fantasy league GM. Really, why leave that?

  312. John Says:

    I predicted Oakland to make the playoffs this season, and was hilariously rebuffed.

    I think Oakland loses just about 100 games in 2012.

    I really liked the haul for Chill and Gonzalez, but this feels underwhelming. I really feel like they would have gotten more by trading him next year or at mid-season, assuming Bailey stays healthy. In his most recent season, he was hurt, thus reducing his value. Also, the current closer market is saturated.

  313. Jim Says:

    Not being very familiar with Sweeney I looked up his stats and surprise, he appears to be a better player than Reddick. Though Reddick might have a greater upside. Beane must really believe in the to youngsters to make this deal.

  314. Cameron Says:

    Sweeney’s got no power, but he can field and run like a beast and makes good contact.

    And John, I think the main reason they got so little for Bailey is because of the health concern.

  315. Chuck Says:

    “I think Oakland loses just about 100 games in 2012.”

    Larry Bowa said the other day the 2012 A’s will break the franchise record for losses, which is 108.

    They not only will suck, they will massively suck.

    Like John on leave.

  316. Cameron Says:

    They’re punting that team until they get a steady stadium deal.

  317. John Says:

    “They not only will suck, they will massively suck.
    Like John on leave.”

    No, no, no, no, you gotta at least use it correctly. “It’s only queer if you’re in the pier.”

    Anyway, 108 losses? Seems pretty steep, especially for a team that gets to play the Mariners 18 times. If they manage to spin Braden, McCarthy, and Anderson, then I think we can talk about that level of suck. But right now, I’m saying 62-100. Not that it really matters.

    Think about 2013 though. The Astros will still be bad. So will the A’s, and likely the Mariners.

    The Angels and Rangers will have an inside track at the two best overall records in the league, getting to play that bush-league schedule. They could realistically both be over 100 wins each.

  318. Cameron Says:

    John, they can get more than five bucks and a bag of pretzels for Anderson, he’s probably gone.

  319. John Says:

    I don’t think they’d want to trade Anderson, but I don’t think they should’ve traded Bailey at this juncture either.

    With Anderson, you’ve got an enormously talented pitcher, but one who has all of 32 starts in the last two seasons.

    So, you’re not gonna get squat for him right now.

    But – you can definitely get something for him at the trade deadline, or even next off-season, if he can stay healthy. And because this isn’t 1988, you don’t have to worry about him being undervalued for a 5-15 record, or whatever (see Fister, Doug).

    Even if you lose a half year, or a full year until free agency with him, his trade value will still be far higher with a healthy slate of starts.

    Again, the same really should’ve been true of Bailey, especially when considering the plethora of available closers this off-season…but Beane traded him, at probably his lowest all-time value. Big mistake, in my opinion.

  320. Cameron Says:

    Still, they can get warm bodies for him, and that’s what they’re looking for.

  321. Cameron Says:

    So… A minor internet celebrity has bought me a headset microphone out of the kindness of his heart. …I don’t quite know what the fuck is going on, but I have a way to do something I’ve always wanted to do and start a podcast. Most likely it’s going to be on baseball since it’s what I love and what I know.

    So I think I have a regular feature to contribute, guys. Soon as I figure how to get things set up.

  322. Bob Says:

    Braut, I read where an Oregon football player ( Mark Asper) performed the Heimlich maneuver on a diner. Good job teaching people that stuff out there.

  323. Bob Says:

    The Giants signed Boof Bonser to a minor-league deal.

  324. Brautigan Says:

    Bob: Mark Asper said it was his Eagle Scout training that “kicked in automatically”. Nice guy, good player. Probably Oregon’s best lineman. Likely a late round draft pick, but he’ll make someone’s roster next year.

    Oregon will have their hands full against Wisconsin, but it might be the best bowl game this year.

  325. Bob Says:

    I hope so, as I intend to watch it.

  326. Brautigan Says:

    So far, the most interesting bowl games have been games that were not compelling to begin with.

    And I for one, will not watch the rematch of LSU-Alabama. I was amped and excited to watch the first one, but it was so dull, I quit watching in the second half and switched to a PAC 12 game.

  327. John Says:

    I agree, WI-Oregon is gonna be sick, definitely looking forward to it.

    Military Bowl yesterday was a shootout between USAFA and Toledo. USAFA scored what should’ve been the game-tying TD, but did a fake on the XP.

    The element of surprise is a crazy fallacy. If you wanna go for 2, fine..run your offense out there. They actually know what they’re doing. USAFA kicking squad did not..

  328. Brautigan Says:

    If Oregon scores first against Wisconsin, expect Oregon to try a 2 point after TD. If they see the right alignment, they’ll go for it. If Wisconsin is ready, Oregon will set up for the extra point kick. Oregon does this about every game, so don’t be surprised if they pull off the attempt early in the game.

  329. Bob Says:

    The Astros interviewed Keith Law.

  330. Brautigan Says:

    Good God, what next? I mean, shouldn’t Keith Law be interviewing the Astros?

    Again, who is running the show these days? At this rate, we’ll be seeing Michael Lewis running the Twins. Cameron, you ought to get on that Royal payroll NOW.

  331. Chuck Says:

    “The Astros interviewed Keith Law.”

    Not surprisingly, Law himself started the Astros rumor himself, about a month ago here in Phoenix during an ESPN Radio appearance talking about the AFL.

    Law was in his car driving home and the show was doing a remote from a sports bar a couple of miles from Law’s house. The host jokingly said for Law to stop by, which he did. On the air the host asked Law about getting back into baseball, to which he replied, “Yeah, maybe Houston because of all the current job openings, who knows, maybe I could end up like Theo.”

    I was thinking maybe “Director of Restroom Operations” because, like the commodes around Minute Maid, Law himself is full of shit.

  332. Bob Says:

    Ryan Kalish had another surgery, this time on his left shoulder in November. will not be ready until late May

  333. Chuck Says:

    This new sabermetric “tool” of counting stolen bases as total bases and offering “adjusted slugging percentage” might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

  334. John Says:

    Of course.

    Because, you’re equally as likely to score a run or be on the front end of a double play whether you’re at second base or first base. There’s literally no difference whatsoever. First base = second base.

  335. John Says:

    @331, I guess it must really piss you off how such a nerd is going to be a scouting director.

  336. brautigan Says:

    Keith Law’s organization was 33 games under .500 when he was with Toronto.

    Does Sabermetrics tell you that sucks?

  337. John Says:

    “Keith Law’s organization was 33 games under .500 when he was with Toronto.”

    Yup, all his fault.

    Omar Minaya, Jim Hendry, Ed Wade…

    Walking graveyards of the old guard.

  338. brautigan Says:

    Old guard, new guard, all the same to me.

    The goal remains the same, score more runs than the other guy.

    Sabermetrics have brought a lot of interest to baseball, but it has yet to convince me that it has won a championship. Or will win a championship.

    Baseball is like religion. You take a little of this and a little of that and you’ve built a foundation. You rely on one or the other, and your resluts will be mixed, or a house around your ankles.

  339. John Says:

    “but it has yet to convince me that it has won a championship. Or will win a championship.”

    2004/2007?

    “You take a little of this and a little of that and you’ve built a foundation. You rely on one or the other, and your resluts will be mixed, or a house around your ankles.”

    Well I can agree with that. Nothing will be won purely with numbers. But the modern GM’s that have ignored anayltics have found themselves with huge loss totals and a lot of unemployment benefits.

  340. Cameron Says:

    Bullshit John. Payroll won that World Series, not sabermetrics.

  341. John Says:

    That’s why the Mets and Cubs have so many championships.

  342. Cameron Says:

    Having a high payroll isn’t a great indicator of success, but c’mon, look at the core players of those ‘04-’07 Sox. Ortiz, Ramirez, Schilling, guys they were flexing payroll muscle for. The only way they competed with the Evil Empire was to play their game.

  343. John Says:

    The Mets and Cubs haven’t had to compete with the Evil Empire…and they still haven’t done shit…with a big payroll.

  344. Cameron Says:

    True, because they made bad hires. But these are hires where you can’t really prove to say “sabermetrics would’ve fixed this”. Anyone could tell you paying Carlos Zambrano 25 a year or Oliver Perez 12 would blow up in their face. That’s not a bad stats argument, that’s just bad business.

  345. Chuck Says:

    “I guess it must really piss you off how such a nerd is going to be a scouting director.”

    Gonna piss you off when the Astros don’t hire him.

  346. Cameron Says:

    Chuck, does Jeff Lunhow have a reputation of being a flaming dumbass? I like Crane’s ambition with the team but Lunhow to me is a complete mystery. I don’t think he’d hire Keith Law as a scouting guy.

  347. Cameron Says:

    And from the “who gives a shit” file, Melvin Mora has retired.

  348. John Says:

    Mora had quite a 2004 season. .340 batting average, with a league-leading (team-damaging) .419 OBP.

  349. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, I was just playing it off. Never a major star, but he had, what was it, a 6 year career? Points for longevity.

  350. John Says:

    13, actually.

  351. Cameron Says:

    I meant to say 16. My keyboard’s acting up.

  352. Bob Says:

    Chuck and John, I just sent you guys a rinky-dink article.

  353. Lefty33 Says:

    “But the modern GM’s that have ignored anayltics have found themselves with huge loss totals and a lot of unemployment benefits.”

    Call for John.

    It’s Pat Gillick on line 1 and he says “Bull Shit”!

    Call for John.

    It’s Ruben Amaro on line 2 and he says “Bull Shit”!

  354. Chuck Says:

    “But the modern GM’s that have ignored anayltics have found themselves with huge loss totals and a lot of unemployment benefits.”

    Winner, 2011 Dugout Central Retarded Comment of the Year Award.

  355. John Says:

    Yeah, Jim Hendry and all his World Series rings are so glad they ignored modern analytics.

    “It’s Pat Gillick on line 1 and he says “Bull Shit”!”

    “The Sabermetric aspect is important (but it’s just a piece)” – Pat Gillick.

    “It’s Ruben Amaro on line 2 and he says “Bull Shit”!”

    “Today, I’m proud to announce that I have signed [maybe the 12th best 1B in the game] to a 5 year, 125 million dollar extension through 2016 because he has a lot of RBI’s” – Ruben Amaro, who’s pretty effing glad he could ride Gillick’s coattails.

  356. Lefty33 Says:

    ““The Sabermetric aspect is important (but it’s just a piece)” – Pat Gillick.”

    Code for Sabermetrics are bullshit which is why I never used them yet I won more than all you bitches. But I’ll be cordial in public for the retards who do.

    ““Today, I’m proud to announce that I have signed [maybe the 12th best 1B in the game] to a 5 year, 125 million dollar extension through 2016 because he has a lot of RBI’s” – Ruben Amaro, who’s pretty effing glad he could ride Gillick’s coattails.”

    I agree that the Howard extension was stupid but I think we all know the RBI’s alone are not why Amaro went that route with him.

  357. JohnBowen Says:

    “Code for Sabermetrics are bullshit which is why I never used them yet I won more than all you bitches. But I’ll be cordial in public for the retards who do.”

    Totally explains all of his signings. None of these guys “had good numbers.” They just, I guess, kinda “meshed.”

    For the record, I think Gillick is absolutely a great all-time GM (and you’d be an idiot to not think so, regardless of what approach you like). But the fact of the matter is that he was great because he made informed, objective decisions. He didn’t just sign Chase Utley to an extension because he had a gut feeling, or because he liked his work ethic, or anything like that.

  358. Lefty33 Says:

    Look John the Phillies as an organization have never believed in an analytics based approach and ever since they got Giles out of the picture as the GM and managing partner they have done very well with a 100% scouting based approached ever since Wade took over as GM in ‘98.

    The team has been over .500 in ten of the last eleven seasons which is tied for the best string in the team’s history and that will not be changing any time soon.

    If you have strong scouting/talent evaluation people, owners willing to spend, along with non-meddling ownership you will win in MLB pure and simple.

    It’s easy but most teams fall short in one area or more.

  359. Lefty33 Says:

    “He didn’t just sign Chase Utley to an extension because he had a gut feeling, or because he liked his work ethic, or anything like that.”

    He also didn’t consult the team’s statistician/sabermatrician (because the team doesn’t/didn’t have one)or look at a load of wonkish acronyms either.

    “Totally explains all of his signings. None of these guys “had good numbers.” They just, I guess, kinda “meshed.”

    Explain it however you want but Gillick after the ‘08 WS said several times that he didn’t believe in sabermetrics and that he never used acronym-based metrics as a GM nor would he work for a team that did.

    I guess it’s just voodoo or magic.

  360. JohnBowen Says:

    “Explain it however you want but Gillick after the ‘08 WS said several times that he didn’t believe in sabermetrics and that he never used acronym-based metrics as a GM nor would he work for a team that did.”

    He said, pretty explicitly, that it was a piece.

    Furthermore, the firings of Minaya, Hendry, and Wade (along with the impending firing of Ned Coleti sometime soon) show that when you refuse to use all available information, you get burned.

  361. Lefty33 Says:

    “Furthermore, the firings of Minaya, Hendry, and Wade (along with the impending firing of Ned Coleti sometime soon) show that when you refuse to use all available information, you get burned.”

    Not even close.

    Wade’s firing shows that when you shed over 30% of your teams payroll in three years your owner is not committed to winning.

    “He said, pretty explicitly, that it was a piece.”

    No it wasn’t.

    The team did not/does not employ a sabermatrician.

    Try these:

    “Gillick rejected the statistical Sabermetric approach used by some current GMs”

    “I think you have to see the player and you have to see him on the field — how he plays the game. Is he intense? Does he have passion? Get his body language. See how he interacts with the other players on the team.”

    Pat Gillick on Sabermetrics: Interjecting an answer when someone asked Bert Blyleven about new stats that aided his Hall of Fame candidacy, Gillick noted Blyleven’s 287 wins and said, “It’s whoever wins. It’s whoever wins 90 to 100 games. Forget quality starts. Forget all that other stuff. It’s whoever wins the game.”

    Those are just a few quotes either associated with Gillick or by Gillick.

    It was never a piece or his philosophy and you are 100% wrong John if you think otherwise because it’s just not true.

    What he said at his HOF induction and what he practiced are very different.

  362. JohnBowen Says:

    “Gillick rejected the statistical Sabermetric approach used by some current GMs””

    That sounds a lot like the third person.

  363. JohnBowen Says:

    “Gillick noted Blyleven’s 287 wins and said, “It’s whoever wins. It’s whoever wins 90 to 100 games.”

    Blyleven’s record (287-250) was the sole reason why it took idiot voters 14 years to induct what should’ve been a slam-dunk.

  364. Lefty33 Says:

    “That sounds a lot like the third person.”

    It was a third person. It was from SI on his HOF induction.

    That’s why I said a few quotes by Gillick or associated with him.

  365. JohnBowen Says:

    “That’s why I said a few quotes by Gillick or associated with him.”

    Or, you know.

    Someone’s guess.

  366. Bob Says:

    1. The Yanks re-signed Andruw Jones.
    2. The Red Sox signed Rich Hill to a minor-league deal.
    3. The Mariners signed George Sherrill.
    4. The Jays are close to signing Darren oliver
    5. Happy New Year!

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