Developing: Latos to Reds for Volquez, Alonso, and others.

by JohnBowen

Padres GM Josh Byrnes has made quite the splash today, trading 24 year-old starting pitcher Mat Latos to the Reds for:

Edison Volquez (RHP)

Yonder Alonso (1B)

Brad Boxberger (RHP)

Yasmani Grandal (C)

Alonso, 24, has been named a top-100 prospect in each of the past three seasons. With 2010 NL MVP Joey Votto firmly entrenched at first base, Alonso wasn’t long for Cincinnati anyway.

Grandal, 23, is a switch-hitting catcher who hit over .300 between three different levels last season.

Boxberger, 23, could compete for a bullpen spot next season, having posted a sub-1 WHIP between AA and AAA in 55 relief appearances in 2011.

And then there’s Edison Volquez, who was once traded for Josh Hamilton. Volquez had an outstanding rookie year in 2008, but has battled injuries ever since, making just 41 starts in the last three seasons. That said, he has to be a happy man, getting to transfer from one of the game’s most hitter-friendly parks to its most pitcher-friendly.

Mat Latos has put up solid numbers the last couple years, but there’s certainly no guarantee that this will continue, as he is making the opposite move of Volquez. He is under team control through 2015.

All in all, my gut reaction is that San Diego made out like bandits on this trade. Thoughts?

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215 Responses to “Developing: Latos to Reds for Volquez, Alonso, and others.”

  1. JohnBowen Says:

    I completely forgot to mention…Rizzo.

    So the Padres now have Alonso and Rizzo…I suppose they have to flip one?

    Although Alonso played some LF last year, at least one scout is saying “no way” to the idea of him patrolling LF at Petco.

  2. Raul Says:

    A 4-for-1 trade? For Mat Latos?

    I always thought if anyone was going to be a 4-for-1 trade, it was going to be Felix Hernandez.

  3. Bob Says:

    I concur. Rizzo to the Cubs could be a by-product of this trade.

  4. Cameron Says:

    It’s a 4 for 1 trade, but it’s not exactly a star package. There’s question marks all over that package. Can Volquez stay healthy? Will Alonso find time to play in between Jesus Guzman, Anthony Rizzo, and Kyle Blanks all fighting him for innings? Is Grandal’s success in the minors going to translate to major league success? Who the fuck is Brad Boxberger?

    Meanwhile, you know what you’re getting with Latos, and it’s one of the better pitchers in the league. Nothing that stands out, but he has no glaring weaknesses either. He’s durable, gets good strikeouts, decent control, lets relatively few guys across.

    San Diego might win this trade, but Cincinnati is getting a young, good pitcher who’s cost-controlled through the next four seasons and didn’t lose anything out of their major league team. Hell, with Votto and Mesoraco looking to be at first and catcher this season, they really didn’t lose shit.

  5. Bob Says:

    Boxberger could be a future closer, and should be a seviceable arm in Petco at the very least. Andf I believe he was once drafted by your team, if memory serves.

  6. Cameron Says:

    20th round pick for KC in 2006, comp round pick for the Reds in 2009.

    And “future closer” usually translates to “middle relief”. He’s decent, but the upside of this package really doesn’t seem that high to me. Mostly because there’s two hitters with low-mid-range power when you realize their in PETCO, a reliever, and a starter who will probably see less innings than the reliever.

    I just like Cincinnati’s end of this because they’ve got the only proven product in this deal. Is playing for the Reds gonna hurt his numbers a little? Yeah, but he’s also gonna help this team be a contender with him and Cueto being in the front of that rotation.

  7. Bob Says:

    I agree. Cininatti had the depth to do this; San Diego just tapped into their depth. Helps both teams. Just 5 tears from now, San Diego comes out somewhat ahead.

  8. Cameron Says:

    Yeah… San Diego really isn’t competing either way, so I guess they were hedging their bets on Latos and trying to get as big a return as they could. Any draft compensation would be much later for a draft class that’s unknown, and starting pitchers are a hot commodity this year. Strike while the iron’s hot, I guess.

  9. JohnBowen Says:

    “I concur. Rizzo to the Cubs could be a by-product of this trade.”

    That’d be interesting. Rizzo was drafted by the Red Sox (he was part of the Gonzalez deal)…so Theo might be interested.

    The Padres probably wish they hadn’t called him up last year; he showed no ability whatsoever to hit MLB pitching in the 50 games that he was up.

    Not saying that it’s indicative of his abilities (quite the contrary), but if he had stayed in AAA, he would’ve hit something like 40 home runs and been a far more attractive trade chip.

  10. JohnBowen Says:

    Saw this on ESPN.com:

    “Just like Cleveland, you got dumped St. Louis.
    So why does it hurt so much more in Cleveland?”

    In the 3 seconds since I saw that, I thought of 3.5 billion reasons. Here are a few:

    - The Cardinals just won the World Series.
    - St. Louis, as a city, has won at least 6 championships since Cleveland last had a championship.
    - The Cardinals still have some great talent, what with Berkman, Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright, Garcia, and the inexplicably good David Freese, whereas the Cavs were left with…nothing.
    - Pujols at least received a substantially better offer; Lebron didn’t.
    - Pujols wasn’t a native son of St. Louis.
    - St. Louis is a nicer place than Cleveland by about 7 orders of magnitude.

    There’s my list ESPN, can I have a job?

  11. Cameron Says:

    No, Pujols was a native son of Kansas City and we didn’t draft him. …Nine times.

  12. JohnBowen Says:

    According to “The Extra 2%” , the Devil Rays were intensely scouting Pujols but never pulled the trigger because he looked awkward, or something.

  13. Cameron Says:

    A guy his size playing shortstop? Yeah, he would look a bit awkward. I know the guy who umpired his games at Fort Osage, his high school. He was a bit big for what he played, but the way he carries himself at the plate? The discipline, the power, etc.? Always had it.

    He played shortstop through college here in KC and never really had a steady position, as evidenced by him cycling through third, left, and first in his first 3-4 years. If anything, that position question mark is probably what held him back. He could play multiple positions, but wasn’t great at any of them at the time and he looked awkward in the field. The hitting ability, though, was always there.

  14. Cameron Says:

    Kobe Bryant’s wife is filing for divorce. Need I remind you that Kobe was tried, basically, for raping a woman and his wife stood by him and didn’t put in a piece of paperwork.

    …Kobe, the fuck did you do to drive off a woman who’ll stand by you for THAT!?

  15. Raul Says:

    There was a time when the media considered an athlete’s personal life a private matter.

    Some things were better yesterday.

  16. Cameron Says:

    Normally I wouldn’t really care, but this does baffle me. When your husband goes on trial for rape and you don’t divorce him, what the fuck does it take? I’m pretty sure a circus elephant, a 55-gallon drum of peanut butter, and an autographed photo of Bruce Jenner have to be involved.

  17. JohnBowen Says:

    He went 1 full year without winning a championship.

    Embarrassing to be married to such a loser.

  18. Cameron Says:

    With how long he’s been playing, I’m amazed he’s still in the NBA. I know 33 isn’t exactly retirement age, but this is gonna be his 16th season in the league. Guy has to be beat the fuck up at this point.

  19. Chuck Says:

    Almost immediately after the trade guys like Rosenthal and Heyman were saying Rizzo is going to Tampa for Wade Davis.

    No way Tampa makes that deal if it’s a 1 for 1, so another player (Grandal?) would have to be involved.

  20. JohnBowen Says:

    Yeah, Rays have Davis locked up through 2017 with options and such.

    Brewers have won the bid for Norichika Aoki, who I’ve never heard of. But he’s a .336 career hitter with 3 batting crowns…so yay? I guess?

  21. Cameron Says:

    He’s a career .336/.411/.472 hitter. Good batting eye on him, but not a lot of power. Decent defender, but weak arm. He’s Ryan Braun’s backup plan.

  22. Chuck Says:

    “Pujols was a native son of Kansas City”

    So, Santo Domingo is a suburb or something?

  23. Raul Says:

    dumbest shit ever written @ 17

  24. JohnBowen Says:

    It’s called “sarcasm” @23

  25. Mike Felber Says:

    #16, funny!

    But if she thought he was innocent, then staying was understandable, & his subsequent straying has done him in.

    It is more stark when it is rock stars or top athletes, who have constant opportunities, but it would be better even for ltr & marriage stability if everyone just had open relationships. Be safe, decide your time/life commitments, but love does not mean limiting a partner’s sexual, romantic or related growth opportunities for a life time.

    Many more whole families would be intact if folks had the Ego strength & grace not to be threatened by other liaisons. Each sexe (s)explore for personal, but also biologically influenced reasons.

    Not that cheating on your commitments, like monogamy, is justified.

  26. Cameron Says:

    No, but Independence is, Chuck. …Okay, he lived there for three years, but that’s still KC’s backyard. We should’ve known him better than anyone.

  27. Cameron Says:

    And it seems Chicago and San Diego are trying to work out a package for Matt Garza that’s centered around Rizzo.

  28. JohnBowen Says:

    That’s…weird? I guess they just want to flip Garza at mid-season or something?

  29. Cameron Says:

    I think Theo wants to get rid of Garza’s contract.

    Also, word has it that Yu Darvish’s posting bid set the record for the posting system, breaking Daisuke Matsuzaka’s $51,111,111 bid.

  30. Cameron Says:

    Also, John, forgive me for sounding like an asshole but…

    IN YOUR FAAAAACE!!!!! GO CHIEFS!

  31. Raul Says:

    The arrogant 1972 Dolphins approve.

  32. Raul Says:

    Yep. I’m a Dolphins fan.

    Though I do not care about another team being undefeated.

  33. John Says:

    Yeah, oh well. Hopefully the Steelers can beat the 49ers and we can just focus on resting our guys for 5 of the next 8 quarters and avoid the unnecessary costs of perfection. Also, this loss will allow is to really address some weaknesses that have existed all year but didn’t seem big to an unbeaten team.

    Fact of the matter is the Chiefs just outplayed us, pure and simple. No blown calls to speak of, no mitigating weather effects ….y’all made big plays, particularly on third down, we didn’t.

    Jennings being out definitely hurts….guys were having trouble getting open downfield all game without his presence. But we still had plenty of shots and they kept resulting in drops (particularly Jermichael Finley).

    So kudos, Cam – a well-earned victory, your boys deserve all the credit in the world.

  34. Cameron Says:

    Yep, plus Rodgers wasn’t too sharp today. Hard for him to have been, though, our secondary was shut-down when it came to pass coverage today. Our line isn’t great, but our secondary can be one of the best of the league on any given day.

    …And we did that with the best member hurt. If Berry was here, no one could fucking pass on us.

  35. Raul Says:

    Every day we hear athletes talk about taking things one game at a time.
    Which is why it’s fucking bullshit how they try to deflect the question about perfection.

    If your goal is to win one game at a time, by extrapolation (or ispo facto, or whatever the fucking expression should be), you’re trying to go undefeated.

    So this talk about “well, we aren’t trying to go undefeated. We’re trying to win the Super Bowl…”

    Please. Just admit that it sucks to lose and stop trying to downplay what 19-0 would have meant.

    In other news…Tom Coughlin was just fired.
    Not officially. But regardless of whether he wins the next two games and the Giants go to the playoffs, he’s finished.

    Only a Super Bowl title can save him now. And with the Packers and Saints in the NFC…the Giants can forget it.

  36. Cameron Says:

    Firing Tom Coughlin is the DUMBEST thing the Giants can do. He’s the reason that team wins anything. If anyone needs to go on that team, it’s Perry Fewell and his dumbass idea that Jason Pierre-Paul is a defensive tackle.

  37. Bob Says:

    Let that 1972 team be arrogant. Let that 1972 team pop their bottle of champagne. But let you guys remember that they lost their HOF quarterback for a # of games, and still won. You guys need to remember that the Redskins, as President Nixon pointed out, were still the favorites heading into the final game. You guys need to remember that in a 14 game season, both Czonka and Morris and 1000 yard seasons, whill Kiick had another 510.
    You guys can call them arrogant all you want, but I am popping some tasty champagne tonight. Santa Claus gave me my gift!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. JohnBowen Says:

    The 1972 Dolphins also had an obscenely easy schedule…but then again, in a smaller league with just 14 games, it seems like that’s likely to happen when you’re the best team.

    Plus, it’s not like you can be better than perfect.

    But for my money, the best team of all-time is the 1985 Bears…and I hate the Bears.

    This Packer team is obviously outstanding, and I like our chances at another title if Jennings, Starks, and Bulaga can all come back healthy in time for the playoffs.

    They key for the regular season, at this point, is to get homefield advantage secured. For this to happen, the Packers need to beat either the Lions or Bears, OR have the 49ers lose once…they’re heavy favorites in their final two games against NFC West opponents, but they play the Steelers tonight.

    At that point, it doesn’t matter if we’re 13-3, 14-2, or 15-1.

    Then again, we did just fine last year going 10-6 and sneaking in as the #6 seed.

  39. Bob Says:

    And that 1985 Bears team??????? Lost to the 1985 Dolphins, on Monday night. First Monday night game my parents ever let me watch.

  40. Bob Says:

    The Yu Darvish winner will be announced tonight.

  41. JohnBowen Says:

    Sounds like it’s the Blue Jays. Rogers Corp, or whatever, was pushing really really hard for it.

    With these insane posting fees, remember that the team is paying for a part of the Japanese market, and not just for the value of the player himself.

  42. Bob Says:

    In other, albeit smaller news, the Orioles signed endy Chavez, the Mariners signed George Sherrill, while the DBacks got Jason Kubel.

  43. Raul Says:

    I’m amazed anyone pays that stupid Japanese posting fee.

    If the Dominican Republic or Venezuela created a posting fee system, those countries would get tens of millions of dollars every year from MLB.

  44. Bob Says:

    Ichiro, Darvish and Daisuke were all in their 20’s and being paid decently. The kids in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela are usually ( always) under 18. And they have no contract that legally binds them to their country.

  45. Cameron Says:

    And the Japanese guys also have experience equivalent to high-minors at least, DR, Venezuela, and the like are all amateurs with no competitive experience on a notable level. Only latin country with minors-level experience is Cuba, and you need to wait for bastards to defect to sign them.

  46. Cameron Says:

    Jason Kubel is a Diamondback. …Why?

  47. Bob Says:

    Cause they offered him a contract and he signed it.

  48. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, but why offer him a contract? That outfield didn’t need to be fucked with.

  49. Brautigan Says:

    Kubel can platoon with Cowgill, and/or he makes a great pinch hitting option, or he can challenge Parra for a spot in left or push Parra to fight Young for the CF spot. All in all, it is a nice dilemma for Arizona to have.

  50. Brautigan Says:

    Chuck from last week: You were spot on about Y. Grandal. He was trade bait. Nicely done. Touche.

  51. Cameron Says:

    Kubel’s likely pushing Parra out as trade bait.

  52. John Says:

    I do wonder how much of Kubel’s offensive edge he’s just gonna give away in the field compared to the gold-glover, Parra.

    He generally DH’s for a reason.

  53. Bob Says:

    There are reports that medication for a ” private medical condition’ are what messed up Braun.

  54. Cameron Says:

    Translation: He’s taking prescribed testosterone supplements and doesn’t want to come out and admit it.

  55. Brautigan Says:

    Can’t control his menstrual flow?

  56. JohnBowen Says:

    Translation: herpes baby.

  57. Bob Says:

    @55: who can?

  58. Brautigan Says:

    @ 57: Braun.

  59. Bob Says:

    Touche

  60. Chuck Says:

    Kubel’s not going to play everyday in AZ.

    Don’t understand the move at all.

  61. Chuck Says:

    “Kubel can platoon with Cowgil”

    Cowgill was in the Cahill trade.

  62. Chuck Says:

    The posting fees for Japanese players was like a good will gesture to prevent their players from walking away from their teams.

    Which is really funny because there is like no one playing there that will ever be worth it, Darvish included.

    It’s a really bad experiment that’s just hung around so long it’s now just accepted as part of the game.

    Sort of like the DH.

  63. Cameron Says:

    The posting fee was good in theory, but it blew up in practice when some dumb bastard (read: John Henry) decided to set the bar WAY too high. I like the idea of the posting system because it stops teams in Japan getting screwed the way Hideo Nomo pulled it off… But really, there needs to be a cap on this shit if it’s gonna be successful.

  64. Brautigan Says:

    Cameron: Translation: A fool and his money are soon parted.

    Chuck: How could I forget Cowgill went in the trade? They should have included Kubel too, Oakland could use him more than Arizona could/would.

  65. JohnBowen Says:

    “Which is really funny because there is like no one playing there that will ever be worth it, Darvish included.”

    Ichiro’s posting fee was 13 million.

    I think that’s your one exception.

    Thing is, there’s much more to it than the actual talent that the player will bring. By signing a high-profile Japanese player, you instantly dive into a share of the Japanese market that will likely follow said player.

    As just an example, Kosuke Fukudome was voted to an all-star team in 2008, in a season where he slugged a robust .379. Certainly, the Cubs didn’t get the production they paid all that money for, but the added fanfare must’ve been part of the equation.

  66. Cameron Says:

    Kubel wasn’t a D-Back by the time the Cahill trade came around.

  67. Bob Says:

    Why are we blaming John Henry? He was sick of paying for broken chairs and bones in Theo’s hands when they lost out on international talent like Comtreas. He was sick and tired of losing ARod and others to the Yanks.
    John Henry was not the the bad boy behind thes skyrocketing salaries. Not even close. And if you disagree, well I have a ship-building company in Cleveland to sell you.

  68. Cameron Says:

    I’m just pointing out where the trend started. The guy who sets the benchmark is usually the guy to blame for things getting fucked up. See Ronald Reagan and the Republican party.

  69. Bob Says:

    He watched Ichiro get hit after 200 hits for season after season, and thought that Japan was a worthwhile place to invest. he, like most of us brought into the gyroball, that did not work out.
    But I would rather him be aggressive then sit on his ass, 8 days a week.

  70. Cameron Says:

    Yes, but there’s a difference between 13 million for Ichiro and 52 million for Daisuke. That’s four times the price for on fourth of the talent there. Not saying he shouldn’t be aggressive, but for fuck’s sake, there’s aggressive and then there’s being a dumbass with your money.

  71. Bob Says:

    The Sox had lost two high fucking profile battles to the Yanks.
    1. Jose Contreas
    2. ARod
    3. They were beyond fucking pissed, and I do not blame them.
    4. If 29 teams think the Sox made a huge blunder, fine, do not bid on Japanesse talent. But they still do, despite John Henry distorting the market. Leads me to believe he did not fuck it up all that much.

  72. Chuck Says:

    It is Henry’s fault, to an extent.

    He bid $51 million for Dice-K, the next highest was $37 million, and it wasn’t the Yankees.

    If Henry was a pro poker player, he’d be standing on a sidewalk with a monkey and a tin cup.

  73. Chuck Says:

    I hardly consider Contreras ending up on the Yankees a “loss” for the Red Sox.

  74. Bob Says:

    Be that as it may, they were srill pissed.
    By the same token, I suppose one could argue that losing out on Dice-K was a blessing for the other teams.

  75. Bob Says:

    Henry had every intention of blowing everybody out of the water. It was their way of telling the “Evil Empire” fuck you. He was sick of the Yankees setting the market. Sick of it.
    Hindsight being what is is, in some cases, the Sox were better off letting the market be dictacted by George. But not always.

  76. John Says:

    You shouldn’t run your team based on emotions like being pissed at the other team.

    John Henry could have stuck it to the Yankees by ordering Theo to offer Jeter a 10 year, 200 million dollar deal. Doesn’t mean it’s wise.

    Now…Dice-K was a popular pitcher in Japan. The fact that the Yankees had made inroads on that market with Hideki’s Matsui and, to a much lesser extent, Irabu meant that the Red Sox were lagging in the whole Oriental appeal department.

    Dice-K has been a disaster performance-wise, but I’d be very interested in seeing what, if any, impact his signing had on Red Sox fan-fare in Japan.

  77. Bob Says:

    They opened in Japan, against the A’s. Why?????????? Because of Daisuke. And the fans were rooting for the Sox.

  78. Bob Says:

    And it helped them with Oki and Tazawa.

  79. Cameron Says:

    Did Tazawa even make a start for Boston?

  80. Bob Says:

    @79. Yes, a few times.

  81. Bob Says:

    In 2009 he started 4 games, and pitched 25.1 innings. He had two relief stints that year.

  82. Bob Says:

    1. The Nationals signed Mike Cameron.
    2. See you tomorrow.

  83. John Says:

    Ah Mikey, it might be time to hang’em up. Helluva player though.

  84. Jim Says:

    Henry suffers from the common ‘Sports Team Ownership Psychosis’ Having made a few billion in in the commodities markets he’d be a good poker player if he put his mind to it. A major STOP symptom is the inability to stop throwing money at bad contracts.

  85. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, and it results in guys like Toronto having to post 52 million bucks to get Yu Darvish as a result. It reminds me of an analogy someone made today about the old Showtime Lakers, if you try and hang with them and play their way, you’re gonna lose.

    Sadly, a lot of people don’t try and play an alternative way.

  86. Chuck Says:

    Henry lost his GM, he lost his field manager.

    He’s down a starter and has no right fielder.

    If Toronto wins the Darvish sweepstakes, it’s Boston and Baltimore fighting it out for last place in the East.

    The Sox would be in better shape if they were owned by the morons from Oakland.

  87. John Says:

    For shit’s sake, Boston is going to over 90 games next year.

    They aren’t going to be battling anyone for last place.

  88. Cameron Says:

    Chuck, if anyone proved you can win without a decent starter in your rotation, it was the 2011 Yankees.

  89. John Says:

    CC just shed a tear.

  90. Chuck Says:

    “For shit’s sake, Boston is going to over 90 games next year.”

    For every win over 89, I’ll give you five bucks.

    For every win below 90, you give me fifty.

    Deal?

  91. Chuck Says:

    Ryan Westmoreland video

    http://www.supportbarrow.org/Events_And_Campaigns/221319

  92. John Says:

    How about we call it 20 and 20?

  93. Brautigan Says:

    I just looked at Bostn’s roster. They will not win 90 games next year. They have two starting pitchers under 28 (and Bucholtz can’t stay healthy to save himself, and the other is Lester, who is already a cancer survivor), unless you want to count Daniel Bard who is supposed to go to the rotation this year.

    They are in a world of hurt.

  94. Chuck Says:

    How about we don’t John?

    You have to pay for your over-confidence, otherwise, what’s the point?

  95. John Says:

    …no.

    The Red Sox won 90 games last year and vastly underperformed, both their pythagorean W/L and the true measure of their abilities.

  96. Chuck Says:

    Put up or shut up, John.

    Simple as that.

  97. Cameron Says:

    John, how about you just call Chuck for making a bullshit bet and leaving it at that? No need to justify macho bullshit with math.

  98. John Says:

    Well, no need for that.

    A 10:1 bet is stupid in this context.

    How about you give me 100$ if the Red Sox do make the playoffs, and you give me 10 if they don’t?

    Since, ya know, they’re apparently going to be battling for fourth place in their own division.

  99. Chuck Says:

    “How about you give me 100$ if the Red Sox do make the playoffs, and you give me 10 if they don’t.”

    If you mean I’ll give you ten bucks if they do and you give me $100 if they don’t, then you have a bet.

  100. John Says:

    No, because that would be silly.

    Do you think Vegas makes these bets?

    “Million dollar jackpot if you get dealt 21″

  101. Chuck Says:

    Oh, and by the way, word is starting to leak out (Olney, Heyman) that Texas won the Darvish sweepstakes.

    Suckas.

    Told you that a week ago.

  102. Chuck Says:

    It’s OK, John, I get it.

    You’re not confident enough in your own statement to back it up.

    If you had balls, you’d have been a Marine.

  103. Cameron Says:

    How about I give you both fifty cents to shut up?

  104. John Says:

    “You’re not confident enough in your own statement to back it up.”

    I’m not going to back it up with 10:1 odds, because that would be retarded.

    Are the Red Sox 10 times as likely to win 95 games than 85 games? Of course not.

    Therefore, it’s a stupid bet.

  105. John Says:

    “Told you that a week ago.”

    Also told us that Pujols was a lock to re-sign with St. Louis.

    Nooope.

  106. Chuck Says:

    Along with everyone else.

    It’s OK, though.

    “How about I give you both fifty cents to shut up?”

    You don’t have fifty cents.

    What you gonna do, sign an IOU?

  107. Brautigan Says:

    Who thought the Angels would sign Pujols?

    I’m sure the list is about one or two.

  108. Cameron Says:

    I actually do have fifty cents, Chuck. Cleaned out my car the other day.

  109. Cameron Says:

    The Nats are trying to work out a Latos-esque four-for-one package to land Gio Gonzalez.

    …Billy, listen carefully. Mike Rizzo is a fucking moron. You should be able to take him to the cleaners on this one.

  110. John Says:

    What about a straight-up cash trade? 126 million dollars for Gonzalez.

  111. Cameron Says:

    126 million dollars? I’m sure there’s something like that lying around Washington. Ohai Jayson Werth.

  112. Chuck Says:

    Beane’s no genius either.

  113. Mike Felber Says:

    I know, i’ll wager you Chuck 11 cents vs. you pay me the national debt + the contents of Fort Knox (in case of an Apocalypse we allegedly need precious metal) that a meteor will not take out at least 1/2 the population of ANY US city before the end of the year. Uber-low risk bet for you. You are almost home free!

    Then for January, I’ll bet you double it each day for a month or nothing + infinity of riches that you cannot stop offering crazy terms in bets whether done thunkin’ em up your own self, or presented with the option of friendly remote gambling.

    Or we could just scrap the 2 part gambling extravaganza & go straight to which is higher: the national debt, the collective wealth & income of the 99%, or (my choice) that mere 11 pennies doubled for exactly 1 year.

  114. Bob Says:

    Congrats to the Rangers for winning the Yu Darvish sweepstakes.

  115. Bob Says:

    The Cubs and Red Sox agreed that Theo cannot hire anyone in the Boston organization for 3 years.

  116. Bob Says:

    Of course this came after the Cubs hired scout Matt Dorey from the Sox.

  117. Chuck Says:

    #113,

    Idiot.

  118. Bob Says:

    Ed Wade was hired by the Phillies.

  119. Mike Felber Says:

    @ #117, Now is that playing nice? If you cannot appreciate surreal satire, just ignore it. Maybe I should bet if you can!

    The relocated b-r.com Blog is going very well. They have tons of intelligent & civil commentary on numerous topics. We cannot be faulted for not having their resources, but it inspiring. And much of it is not even SM related.

    http://highheatstats.blogspot.com

  120. Bob Says:

    Roy Oswalt is looking for a 1-year deal now. He hopes to cash in big next year. I hope the Sox get him. Also, Carlos Beltran is hoping to sign a deal by Sunday. Likewise, he would be a great fit at Fenway. Have a great night.

  121. Cameron Says:

    FUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  122. John Says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Your problem now!

  123. Cameron Says:

    FUCK OFF! TAKE HIM BACK!

  124. Chuck Says:

    Suck it, Cameron.

  125. Chuck Says:

    “We cannot be faulted for not having their resources, but it inspiring. And much of it is not even SM related.”

    1) There is no “we.” You don’t write, then it’s “They.”

    2) The resources are exactly the same, only the discussion forum has moved.

    3) I read the site every day. It’s all SM related. You can’t have a baseball related conversation without it.

  126. Cameron Says:

    FUCK YOU ALL! I DESERVE TO RAGE ABOUT THIS! WHY BRING HIM BACK!?!?

  127. Chuck Says:

    “WHY BRING HIM BACK!?!?”

    I’ve been asking the same question about Bruce Chen for two weeks now.

    I guess the Royals are doing everything they can to defend their last place finish from last season.

  128. Cameron Says:

    All I can guess is roster padding.

  129. Chuck Says:

    Looks like the Mets are serious about trading David Wright before Opening Day.

    Looking at a package with Colorado around Eric Young Jr, Tyler Matzek and cash.

  130. Cameron Says:

    Really? EYJ and Matzek? I think Matzek is a good pitcher, but I reaslly think the Mets trading Wright for that package is just imploding the team for the sake of salary relief and not giving a damn about return.

  131. Brautigan Says:

    Tyler Matzek has electric stuff, but, his command right now is somewhere within Steve Blass territory.

  132. Cameron Says:

    And EYJ fucking sucks dogballs. A cardboard cutout of Dave Kingman could win that second base job in Colorado and Young can’t.

  133. Jim Says:

    @121 HA HA HA HA.

  134. Chuck Says:

    ” is just imploding the team for the sake of salary relief and not giving a damn about return.”

    Very good, Grasshopper, you’re catching on.

    The Mets are going from a $142 million payroll to somewhere around $90.

    They’re paying $24 million for a guy who won’t even play, and another $16 to a guy with a no-trade.

    Fifty percent of your payroll on two guys, and that’s WITHOUT Wright.

    You do the math.

  135. Mike Felber Says:

    Chuck:

    1) Yes, it IS we. You properly do not chide a fan for saying “we” about their team, though they have no connection beyond the psychological. just being here & reading the threads, while commenting at length & many times (& how ’bout putting up with you!) qualifies me as “we”. Much more than the one measly article I wrote long ago. Don’t try to distance me.

    2) I did not suggest their resources changed, & am very familiar with them & the original web site. I said that they have far more resources, considering the support behind us, our orphan status, & their exponentially larger commenter base.

    Andy wrote a little while back how highheatstats.cpom has surpassed the b-r.com Blog in hits.

    3) There are some threads amongst the dozens which have little or no SM in them. The comments have much SM, but many are just general, ob servational, nostalgic, etc…

  136. Lefty33 Says:

    “You properly do not chide a fan for saying “we” about their team,”

    Yes you can and yes you should.

    I cannot stand when people ignorantly say “we” when referring to a play, player, game from “their” team.

    If you don’t not play for, coach for, work for, or have some sort of first hand financial connection to a team then it’s NOT WE.

    I couldn’t stand hearing that on rare occurance when I played and now it’s obscene the amount “WE” gets thrown around.

  137. Mike Felber Says:

    What do you all/we think of this? There have been mass hysteria/witch hunt times, but overwhelmingly with children manipulated for a zealous Prosecutor’s convictions. In this case one alleged victim is a relative & DA. His comments, mainly those avoided, re: Penn State case do seem more than passing strange.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/bill-conlin-child-abuse-accusations-philadelphia-baseball_n_1160902.html?1324412453&ncid=webmail20

  138. Mike Felber Says:

    That “you” was directed at one person’s lack of reaction Lefty. But I think he was right to be tolerant there.

    Of course we all know that the fans did not literally help the team succeed in any substantive way. And no credit is seriously being taken. All no that it is a conceit connoting fan identification. It is a tribute to the basic generosity of spirit, & encouragement of a usually powsitive4 sense of group identity & bonding, that few athletes, coaches & sports administrators ever object to this.

    I personally am not a homer/huge fan of 1 team, so have never used the phrase about any team. But anyone else here find this non-royal we(& for Cameron here, literally the Royal we) objectionable rather than a positive ID or harmless conceit?

  139. Cameron Says:

    For fuck’s sake Pennsylvania…

  140. John Says:

    So I can’t actually refer to the Brew Crew as “we” …but I can most definitely refer to the Packers that way!

  141. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 140 – Correct!

  142. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 137 – Pretty wild stuff with Conlin.

    It’s a pity that the statute of limitations ran out years ago and that Conlin cannot be tried in any court except the court of public opinion.

    Seeing as he was investigated/outed by his own people at the Inquirer it would seem the accusations are rock solid as he has been an institution in the Philly sports world for almost fifty years and his own co-workers wouldn’t be printing this as an early April Fools joke if there was no validity to it.

    Also the instant “retirement” and the instant hiring of an attorney also smacks of 100% guilt.

    I never cared for the guy and to me he just comes off as a big fat arrogant D-Bag on the Sports Reporters but his work spoke for itself and he is in the HOF so it is what is with the professional stuff.

  143. Cameron Says:

    The Reds are talking to Chicago for a trade that’d bring Sean Marshall into the fold for Travis Wood and 2 minor leaguers.

    …I like this, just like the Latos trade, they’re adding to the team and not really giving up anything they need.

  144. Brautigan Says:

    “adding to the team and not really giving up anything they need”.

    Cameron, you realize don’t you that Wood is the only left handed starter on Cincinnati? That Cincinnatti already has two left handed bullpen pitchers.

    This is NOT a good deal for Cincinnati, trading a 24 year old left handed starter for a 29 year old left handed reliever.

  145. Cameron Says:

    Braut, Wood’s fighting Mike Leake for the sixth starter spot. They ain’t losing shit in that rotation.

  146. Chuck Says:

    Aroldis Chapman is being “converted” to a starter, if that helps.

  147. Cameron Says:

    It was always in the cards for him to start, his control issues were what was keeping him. But still, I’m not gonna put a token lefty in the lineup if I’ve got five better right handed options in front of me.

  148. Brautigan Says:

    Cincinatti is (or should be) in it for the long haul.

    Check out Sean Marshall’s age 24 season vs. Travis Wood’s age 24 season and again tell me why this is a good trade for Cincinnati?

  149. Brautigan Says:

    Chapman as a starter? Will he hit 100 pitches by the 4th inning?

  150. Cameron Says:

    Simple, Sean Marshall’s a good reliever and they may need a closer since Cordero’s a free agent and Chapman may crack the rotation and Travis Wood sucks dogballs.

  151. Brautigan Says:

    Cam: Relievers are a dime a dozen. Starters are not. Hell, why not throw Matt Maloney into the mix instead of giving up Wood and two minor leaguers?

    You have to admit, Sean Marshall sucked dogballs too.

  152. Cameron Says:

    Sucked, yes. The difference is Sean Marshall sucked three years ago. Travis Wood sucks NOW. The Reds aren’t geared for a future run with these moves, they’re trying to win now, and they need to do it with pitching that’s good now and not focus on trying to keep dead weight just because it can give you six innings.

  153. Brautigan Says:

    Then, explain why they think they can win now with Bronson Arroyo in the rotation? He was worse than dreadful, and he is 35. C’mon Cam, use your thinking cap.

  154. Cameron Says:

    Because Chicago doesn’t want Arroyo. You can’t just plug anyone into a trade and think it’s gonna work, you need to offer the other team a guy they’re gonna want and they want Wood. Wood, Arroyo, they’re the same level of awful, really, but only one of them is gonna help shore up that bullpen… Which really does need shoring up, there really aren’t any impact arms in there with Cordero gone now.

  155. Brautigan Says:

    Of course Chicago doesn’t want Arroyo, so you’re saying Wood is awful, but an awful that Chicago wants? You aren’t making much sense, or better, you’re not convincing me Cincinnati is making a one year run.

  156. Cameron Says:

    Not a one year run, no. With Votto, Bruce, and Latos there long-term they aren’t set up for a one year run. But Theo Epstein is on record as saying he really likes Travis Wood and wants him on the Cubs.

    You gotta understand where the Reds are coming from here. Wood’s pretty much a non-factor in that rotation, Chicago wants him, you need to improve your team and especially the bullpen, and with the two biggest sluggers leaving the division the iron is hot for them to compete. This move will help them get close to a championship now and they’d be idiots not to jump on it. I’d rather have a guy who helps keep leads close for my good starters than to obsess over losing one of my bad ones. If Theo wants to get rid of one of his best pitchers for one of my worst, I’m not saying no.

  157. Bob Says:

    Bill Buckner will not be added to the Sox coaching staff, despite his friendship with Valentine.

  158. Brautigan Says:

    If Sean Marshall is one of your best pitchers, then you’re asking the wrong question.

  159. Bob Says:

    Also, I thought this was funny, though not baseball-related. SNL is trying to get Tim Tebow to host a show after the Broncos season.

  160. Chuck Says:

    Bill Buckner’s a borderline HOFer and gets treated like he’s a serial killer.

    Leon Durham does the exact same thing and no one even remembers it.

    Idiot Cub fans would rather bury some poor sack who only did what every single one of us would have done…try and catch a foul ball.

  161. John Says:

    “Bill Buckner’s a borderline HOFer ”

    LOL

  162. Chuck Says:

    OK so he’s pretty far from the border.

  163. Cameron Says:

    He was pretty good, one of the better defensive first basemen of all time. I saw something comparing him to Steve Garvey that was pretty interesting. The two of them were pretty similar defensively, but Buckner threw assists to covering pitchers a lot whereas Garvey had so little trust in his arm he almost always covered first himself.

  164. Brautigan Says:

    Who knows what kind of career Buckner would have had had he not had that god-awful broken ankle that he never really recovered from?

  165. Chuck Says:

    Buckner started his career as an outfielder.

    He was the Dodgers left fielder on 4/8/1974 when Hank Aaron set the legitimate all time HR record.

  166. Cameron Says:

    Oh yeah, that was Buckner that ball flew over. Man, seeing Hank Aaron’s 715th fly over his head, the ‘86 single, is there a memorable moment where Buckner isn’t on the ass end of it?

  167. Cameron Says:

    The Royals signed Jose Mijares. He sucked last year, but the rest of his career was pretty good. Fingers crossed for a comeback, just like Broxton.

  168. Cameron Says:

    And the Marshall deal is official, minor leaguers haven’t been named yet.

  169. Brautigan Says:

    The level of stupidity by major league general managers never ceases to amaze me.

    The trade of Travis Wood and two minor leaguers for Sean Marshall is just one of those deals that have me scratching my head.

    1) Relief pitching is the easiest thing to fix.
    2) Marshall will be a 30 year old free agent next year. What are the odds he stays in Cincinnati? (slim, meet none).
    3) Travis Wood is a 24 year old with a 5 pitch repetoire. If I was a Cub fan, I’d be laughing my arse off at Walt Jocketty right about now.
    4) Yet, we’ll be hearing how “shrewd” Theo is. Yet, Theo keeps getting gifts handed to him. Theo is the luckiest bastard in the sports world not named Tebow.

  170. Cameron Says:

    24 year old lefty with a five pitch repetoire, but all five pitches are easy to drill over the fence, man.

  171. John Says:

    I agree that this is a stupid trade.

    Wood is 24 years old. 24! Why are the Reds giving up on him? He’s 24.

    In 35 career starts, he has pitched over 200 IP of basically average-ish ball, which is pretty damn good for a young pitcher.

    If the Latos addition makes him expendable, fine. But get some real value for him. 1-year of a 30 year old reliever is pretty poor fetch.

  172. Cameron Says:

    Oh Bruat, been meaning to ask you, it looks like Portland’s picked up Jamal Crawford to be Brandon Roy’s replacement. What do you think? Personally, I think he’s not great but out of the available options that were out there this season, he’s about the best they could’ve done.

  173. Brautigan Says:

    He won’t start. He will be Portland’s go to guy off the bench for quick scoring, ala Vinnie Johnson and Downtown Freddy Brown. He’s a big addition, but he’ll probably play around 20 minutes a game and if he plays “ole” defense, he won’t be playing at all.

    What Portland needs is depth up front, they are awfully thin. And they were thin before Greg Odom’s knees went south for the winter (again).

  174. Cameron Says:

    True, Crawford is a major defensive liability. You know the team better than me, who is manning the two now that Crawford’s gone?

  175. Cameron Says:

    That Roy’s gone, I mean. Short term muscle memory’s a bitch.

  176. Mike Felber Says:

    Buckner was a good guy & treated unfairly. He was not the only piece that failed in that ‘86 series. But a 99 OPS + without great middle infield talent made him just a decent player. I do not see any all star years for him.

  177. Brautigan Says:

    That would be Wesley Matthews. He is the starting 2 guard.

  178. Cameron Says:

    I see… Lot of stock to put in a guy who went undrafted. Your team’s gonna be relying on rotating guys off the court a lot this year. Kinda like Dallas, but with less quality bench guys.

  179. Chuck Says:

    $13 million per for John Danks?

    Damn

  180. Bob Says:

    See? My 3 year deal to a position player does not look quite as shity, now does it?

  181. Bob Says:

    So…How many companies and people are going to change their overnight delivery courier?????

  182. Cameron Says:

    I guess if you can’t trade him, you sign him to a ridiculously expensive contract extension that makes him untradeable.

    …Wait, that’s fucking stupid.

  183. Brautigan Says:

    LOL @ 181.

    That guy’s worse day is coming soon.

  184. Bob Says:

    As it should.

  185. Bob Says:

    1. The Nationals signed Mark DeRosa.
    2. The Mets signed Rob Johnson.

  186. Bob Says:

    It appears the Nationals won the Gio Gonzalez sweepstakes. Giving up:
    1. A.J. Cole
    2. Derek Norris
    3. Brad Peacock
    4. Tom Milone

  187. Cameron Says:

    Cole rings a bell, Norris has upside, but all in all this is a crap package.

  188. Brautigan Says:

    Not any longer. Danny Espinosa and/or Ian Desmond are in the discussion now. I’d take Espinosa if I was Oakland.

    But again, I’m not sure why Oakland would be trading Gio. It makes little sense to me. (Reason #125 why I am not a General Manager)

  189. Brautigan Says:

    Well, I just read where the deal was done exactly as Bob said. The key was Peacock. He has excellent stuff, and Oakland got two good pitchers out of this deal.

    But still, does this mark yet another Oakland rebuilding project? It seems this is a perennial effort………..that goes on ………and on………and on.

    Must be frustrating for an Oakland fan.

  190. Cameron Says:

    Braut, I think it’s the stadium issue. They’re so uncertain about where they’re going to leave Oakland that they’re pre-emptively dumping Gio and Cahill before arbitration and contract extensions come into play.

    You’re a Trail Blazers fan, you know what I’m talking about with cheapass owners, right?

  191. Chuck Says:

    Holy shit.

    Did you see what Beane got for Gonzalez?

    Cameron is right, Mike Rizzo is a fucking idiot.

  192. Cameron Says:

    I think he could’ve gotten more, and I may be the guy who’s the lowest on Peacock here. This guy’s career middle relief and he’s never gonna be anything special. I like Cole and Norris has pretty good upside. All in all, they could’ve done worse, but without picking off Desmond or Espinosa, they could’ve done MUCH better.

  193. Chuck Says:

    Really?

    So, you want to be a ML General Manager?

    And you think Beane “settled”

    Holy shit.

    He got a better deal than the Padres got for Latos.

    Shoot me now.

  194. Cameron Says:

    Difference of opinion I guess. I like the package, but I don’t it’s as good as he could’ve done. He got Rizzo talking either Espinosa or Desmond, but he didn’t get them to pull the trigger. He didn’t exactly get hosed, but no one in that package is going to make an immediate impact in Oakland.

  195. Chuck Says:

    “but no one in that package is going to make an immediate impact in Oakland.”

    Not even remotely close to the point.

    Beane loves controllable guys.

    He could give a rat’s ass about the A’s won/lost record.

    All he cares about is having decent, cheap, controllable talent.

    The fact he wouldn’t pay Gonzalez four million proves that.

    I get the fact he works for a financially fucked organization, but still some of the things he does defies logic.

    I guess as long as Michael Lewis keeps stopping by for his twice a week blowjobs things won’t change much.

  196. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, from a financial standpoint this is pretty good. But you shouldn’t be making a trade JUST for salary dumping.

    And for the record, Michael Lewis is a hack.

  197. John Says:

    Interesting contradiction, there, Chuck.

  198. Chuck Says:

    Of course it is, John.

    Speaking of twice a week blowjobs, how’s the Navy treating you?

  199. Cameron Says:

    And starting next season, Brooklyn gets its first dedicated sports team since the Dodgers left town. …Too bad it’s the Nets. That place just can’t catch a break.

  200. John Says:

    You underestimate the Patriotism of our nation’s female 18-25 year olds, Chuck.

    Nah, but it’s cool, I report to Charleston next month.

    I’m still confused. You’re criticizing Beane for not wanting to pay Gio Gonzalez 4M this year…but acknowledging that he got a big-time haul for him (one largely made possible by the number of team-controlled years that Gio Gonzalez still has).

  201. Cameron Says:

    Merry Christmas everyone. I’m about to head off and ride a train for the rest of the night. Time online may be sparse considering the poor internet where I’m headed. Know I love y’all like family and it’s been a great year.

  202. Cameron Says:

    Also, Carlos Beltran is a St. Louis Cardinal. 2 years, 26 million, full no-trade.

  203. Chuck Says:

    “Speaking of twice a week blowjobs, how’s the Navy treating you?”

    I was talking about the giving, not the receiving.

  204. Bob Says:

    1. The Yankees and Red Sox both paid the luxury tax…again. Only teams to be penalized.
    2. Merry Christmas!!!

  205. Bob Says:

    I have not seen Raul in a few days, so he could be traveling. Connie Mack was born on this date in 1862.

  206. Mike Felber Says:

    Went to a meetup at the World Bar/Tower vulgarian Trumps place basically across from the UN. Only $5, I don’t like drinking, just for prospects of meeting girls. The exact type of place, in fancy milieu & discretion, one might expect to find…Derek Jeter.

    A few folks were excited, bar was not crowded, & a tiny Asian gal got a guy to go with her. She said he denied who he was at 1st-assuming she got that right-I heard him apologizing that he could not do pictures. She said he said he could “get in trouble”. Anyway he was nice & gracious, a couple of folks got his John Hancock, & he continued talking with a few friends pn the plush furniture.

    For me then it was home, with a stop at Chez Dumpster for free fine cuts of raw fish, bread & fruit. Probably Mr. Jeter did not rustle through a Food Emporium’s refuse. :-)

  207. Bob Says:

    @206… You lost me at ” I don’t like drinking”!!!

  208. Mike Felber Says:

    Bob, you did not understand that Jeter was there, at exact type of locale where you might expect re: honey & private,how he was approached for an autograph, & my humorously contrasting his reasonably presumed high end habits with my freeganing?

    The last part is the only thing I could see you being confused about, if unfamiliar with the increasingly prominent subculture folks who get food, clothes, & or furniture that is thrown out. In groups or alone, sometimes at the likes of churches, bars, community or yoga centers that allow all to leave & take whatever they like.

  209. Bob Says:

    i am a wanger-toothed tiger!

  210. Cameron Says:

    …Bob, step away from the eggnog.

  211. Mike Felber Says:

    lol! I don’t even like alcohol, & above wrote “honey” instead of the intended “money”.

  212. Bob Says:

    I am staying away from the Nog, just hitting the whiskey!!

  213. Bob Says:

    Holy shit, the Lions made the playoffs!!!!!!!!!! Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

  214. JohnBowen Says:

    If anyone wants a picture-perfect blue-print on how to rebuild a team, they should really just do exactly whatever it is that the Lions did.

    In 2008, the Packers and Lions squared off in the last game of the year. The 0-15 Lions were trying to avoid ignominy. The 5-10 Packers just wanted to avoid the shame of losing to a 0-win team, having played in the NFC Championship Game the year previous.

    This year, both teams will play in Week 17 as playoff teams.

  215. Cameron Says:

    So they should draft a franchise QB, ignore the fact their o-line sucks until said QB gets shelved for the season twice, and then sneak into the playoffs despite a defense that draws more fouls than Stephen Jackson?

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