BREAKING: Yankees Trade Jesus Montero…..

by Chuck

….to Seattle for Michael Pineda.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL…

Per MLB.com it’s a four player trade total, with the other two not announced yet.

Sumbitch, looks like Chuck’s right again.

Yawn.

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312 Responses to “BREAKING: Yankees Trade Jesus Montero…..”

  1. Chuck Says:

    Other players are Hector Noesi going to Seattle and 18 year old reliever Jose Campos going to New York.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=campos003jos

  2. Cameron Says:

    You know what, I’ll call Pineda a pretty good return for New York, actually. Guy has a lot of upside and you’ve put some SERIOUS youth in that rotation now. That’s, what, 3 guys 25 and under now?

  3. Raul Says:

    ….
    I thought the idea was to package Montero and others for Felix…

  4. Raul Says:

    And NY signed Kuroda

  5. Cameron Says:

    That was the idea, Raul, but Jack Z’s brain is not, in fact, a hamster running on a wheel.

  6. Chuck Says:

    Even Cashman can’t let anyone enjoy this.

    Here I am getting ready to go to the ER because I’m working on a four hour boner, and he turns around and signs Kuroda.

    No more boner.

    I guess they got Pineda to shore up the rotation in Scranton.

  7. Cameron Says:

    The way Pineda’s been pitching, no way he’s gonna be in the minors. Someone’s getting moved or going to the bullpen. Burnett’s been working a lot of long relief lately, so my guess is he’s going to the sixth starter.

    Or maybe they move Hughes back to setup since his arm’s giving them so much trouble and they reduce the workload for him. Considering his effectiveness last time around, wouldn’t be a half-bad idea.

  8. Raul Says:

    Hughes had an immensely disappointing 2011 season and Girardi made it clear he needs to make serious strides in 2012.

    Point is, Hughes should have been busting his butt this off-season. I’d like to think that he’ll get a sincere shot to prove himself this Spring.

    SP – CC Sabathia
    SP – Ivan Nova
    SP – Michael Pineda

    The remaining 2 spots are a battle between Phil Hughes, Hiroki Kuroda, Freddy Garcia and AJ Burnett.

    As bad as Burnett has been, do you think 15 million is going to the bullpen?
    I would be surprised if Burnett wasn’t starting.

    I think Garcia enters Spring Training as the favorite to take the 5th spot, only because he performed well last season and as kind of a sign of respect, I’d have to think it’s his spot to lose. But Kuroda could take it.

    The only way Hughes takes a spot is if he shows the ability to be ace that many talent evaluators saw in him 5-6 years ago. He’s gotta come out throwing heat, and he’s gotta start striking guys out.

  9. Cameron Says:

    Burnett’s shown willingness to go to the pen late in the season and the postseason. I wouldn’t be surprised if both him and Garcia are gonna spot start this year and go long relief for when the other guys fuck it up.

    Hughes could very well go back to setup all things considered. It seems every time they give him starter’s innings, his arm goes dead.

  10. Chuck Says:

    You’re forgetting Ivan Nova.

    Sabathia and Burnett is a lock for the rotation.

    So is Kuroda.

    That leaves Hughes, Nova, Garcia, and Pineda for two spots.

  11. Chuck Says:

    Something else to think about.

    Pineda had a pretty good rookie year.

    He faded at the end, but is that so unexpected for a young kid?

    So, maybe Seattle knows something about his medicals they don’t like.

    This also pretty much locks up a starting spot in the rotation for Danny Hultzen.

  12. Cameron Says:

    I think with the way Nova pitched last season he’s gonna be in there, and I think they give a spot to Pineda pretty easy if only because he’s the youngest guy there and the hardest thrower. He definitely could ease the workload there. He faded near the end, but I think that might just be the same thing every rookie goes through. Rookies are good that year, then hitters get a read on them and the mystique is gone. From here on out, it’s how he adjusts to the adjustments that’s gonna make him good.

    The thing I really like about this in analysis is that you can prep Banuelos and/or Betances for bullpen duty full time and no one’s gonna give a shit anymore.

  13. John Says:

    Unless Pineda does have a medical issue (hadn’t thought of that), this is a crazy good trade for NY.

    And I get why Jack Z did it – he currently has the most anemic offense, maybe, of all-time and needs a bat.

    But still -you’re trading an outstanding young pitcher who, as a rookie, finished top-10 in the league in a couple peripheral categories – for a catcher who can’t catch, and is only highly rated because he’s a catcher with pop.

    Pineda’s easily going to make the rotation…and Edwin Jackson probably lost like 15 million dollars last night.

  14. Cameron Says:

    John, you also gotta realize going from Yankee Stadium to Safeco’s gonna kill this poor bastard’s numbers.

  15. John Says:

    Montero’s? What does he have, like 50 MLB at-bats to his name?

  16. Bob Says:

    Yanks rotation
    1. Sabathia
    2. Pineda-Assumes he is healthy
    3. Kuroda
    4. Nova
    5. This is where the battle will be. I suppose Hughes could be traded. Burnett or Garcia.
    6. Also, I bet the Yanks sign Madson next year, as I honestly think Mo retires.

  17. Chuck Says:

    Cam,

    I was reading through a culinary newsletter this morning and came across a recipe for home-made spam, and immediately thought of you.

    http://starchefs.com/cook/recipe/sawako-okochi/okonomiyaki-pancake-cabbage-bean-sprouts-spam

  18. Cameron Says:

    Yeah John, but remember where he’s shown all his power? Right-center. In Safeco, that’s a death sentence to your power numbers.

    …And thanks Chuck. Actually, I have been eating a little better. Maybe not healthier necessarily, but better. Found a better place unit-price wise, so the wiggle room I have in my food budget just keeps growing.

  19. Chuck Says:

    Here it is, January 14th and not only has Prince Fielder not signed, he hasn’t gotten an offer.

    Scott Boras is now on the Desperation Tour, trying to get at least two teams in a war, even if it’s for less money.

    Seattle: Just acquired the “bat” they were looking for, for about $23 million less.

    They’re out.

    Cubs: They just acquired their first baseman of the future, for about $23 million less. Plus Theo is gutting the team, he got rid of Zambrano, don’t be surprised if Soriano is next. They’re willing to throw in the towel on this year and next in order to re-build the team.

    They’re out.

    Rangers: They have until 5pm on Wednesday to make a $100 plus million decision on Yu Darvish.

    They’ll only sign Fielder if Darvish says no, but he won’t get more than 3 years.

    Here’s my prediction.

    Fielder goes back to Milwaukee, then holds a press conference and says they were always his first choice.

  20. Raul Says:

    Pineda’s away numbers last year were shitty, but I’m willing to overlook those for now.

    Why would the Yankees trade Hughes? To shore up what position? He’s been so unreliable that he wouldn’t get you a quality prospect anyway. Either they make him a bullpen guy because he’s been rather successful there, or they build him as a starter — THEN they can ship him out to someone. A long shot would be that he stays in the bullpen this year and does so well that he gets moved to Closer with the retirement of Mariano Rivera.

  21. Cameron Says:

    Kevin Kouzmanoff is an Omaha Storm Chaser. …Ouch, tough break, big guy.

  22. Cameron Says:

    “Yankees GM Brian Cashman feels he took a “huge risk” with the trade, reports The Record’s Bob Klapisch (via Twitter). “I gave up a ton (for Pineda),” Cashman said. “To me, Montero is Mike Piazza. He’s Miguel Cabrera.”"

    …I’m not sure if that’s PR or if Cashman believes his own bullshit.

  23. Cameron Says:

    Great moment by Tom Verducci. He says that local and national TV revenues can help the Nats sign Prince Fielder despite Zimmerman and Werth’s contracts.

    …Methinks he forgot the Orioles make more money of Nats games than the Nats do.

  24. Bob Says:

    Raul, the thought of them trading Hughes was merely conjecure on my part. Buthis talents could be wasted if he is not in the rotation, as at best he would be the 4th guy in the bullpen, and possibly lower.
    1. Mo
    2. Soriano
    3. Robertson
    4. Let’s sort these guys out. Hughes, the Burnett Garcia loser and dare I mention Joba?
    5. Surely the Yanks could find someone they could/will use a tad more than Hughes, I would guess.

  25. Chuck Says:

    ” A long shot would be that he stays in the bullpen this year and does so well that he gets moved to Closer with the retirement of Mariano Rivera.”

    Damn, Raul, beat me to it.

  26. John Says:

    “Fielder goes back to Milwaukee, then holds a press conference and says they were always his first choice.”

    I would love that. But it’s not happening.

    The money’s just not there. The Brewers signed Aramis Ramirez to a 3 year, 30+ million dollar deal. For 2012, they have to pay KRod – a freaking setup man – about 10-14 million.

    I really hope the Mariners don’t think that Jesus Montero solves their bat woes all by himself, because that would be ridiculous. Seattle’s the most likely fit.

  27. Cameron Says:

    I think Hughes most likely goes to the bullpen too. Every time this guy tries to work a big innings load (read: has three digits in it) you get “Dead arm” complaints.

    Also, looking at the roster for the Royals… We may be one of the best defensive teams in the league next year. Best infield at the least. Hosmer, Giavotella, Escobar, Moustakas (who’s surprisingly mobile at the hot corner). The outfield corners are great and figure to be lobbing assists at will, and Cain ain’t half-bad. Perez is a good defender, too. I like this, hopefully it’ll help negate the pitching that will either be green (if we go with rookies) or god awful (if we… do what we do every year with our pitching).

    …And hey, at least we’ve got a better shot to compete than the Cubs. Garza’s a walking trade target and I swear the only reason they aren’t trying to trade Dempster is that they know the fans would riot if they did. Chicago loves the guy.

  28. Raul Says:

    Well sure, it’s a risk. Pineda could be Jose Contreras. Who the hell knows when you aren’t pitching in Safeco?

    I just guess the Yankees felt they had enough offense to compete.

    Let’s suppose Montero really is that good offensively — there’s just no spot for him on the team. Not long-term. Things may have played out differently if the Yankees didn’t have those huge contracts on A-Rod and Texeira.

    Question I’m really wondering is…who else is getting traded? Because I’m not sure there’s room for Curtis Granderson AND Robinson Cano — in the long run

  29. Cameron Says:

    John, again, bad fit. It looks like a good fit on paper because of all his numbers, but you gotta remember that for 81 games he’s hitting to one of the worst right fields in the league. Negates a lot of his power. Not saying it will stop them, but I am saying it won’t be as good an idea as it sounds.

    I’m still gonna be the jackass who secretly hopes he signs with the Rangers. Seeing him hit in Arlington is a home run derby waiting to happen.

  30. Cameron Says:

    There’s room, Raul. Once you get guys like Swisher off the books. Chances are that those two will be cornerstones up the middle for you guys. Plus Burnett’s off the books in, what, three years? All of a sudden, look at all that room for a contract extension.

    Plus, A-Rod and Jeter can’t have THAT much left in the tank.

  31. Bob Says:

    ” Seattle’s the most likely fit.”
    I understand Jack Z is in Seattle, but damn if Baltimore is not a fit. Although I suppose “not likely.”

  32. Bob Says:

    Next year the Yankees could be free of Swisher’s contract and Mariano’s contract. Frees up some space. And then Jeter.

  33. Raul Says:

    Giavotella is starting in KC this year?

  34. Cameron Says:

    That’s what it says on the depth chart. Plus I think Getz got released.

  35. Chuck Says:

    “Giavotella is starting in KC this year”

    Why not, he started last year.

  36. Bob Says:

    Cameron, I just went to the Royals site. Getz is listed on their active roster.

  37. Cameron Says:

    Ah damn, maybe I just dreamed it then.

    Also, I saw that Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice went into the NFL Hall of Fame in the same year. All-time rushing and receiving leaders in the same class. How often do you see something like that happen?

  38. Chuck Says:

    Now that he’s gone, I don’t have to say this anymore, but it bears repeating one more time.

    Jesus Montero sucks.

    He’s a 6′3″ 230 pound “power hitter” who swings like a fucking girl; too much hand action and inside out.

    Sure, maybe he would have popped a few to right/right center in the Stadium like he did last year, but the Yanks do play half their games on the road.

    Montero in Safeco is going to be like playing wiffle ball on an airport runway.

    And don’t forget, Oakland and LA aren’t exactly hitter’s parks either. That’s 99 games out of 162.

    Montero will be in AAA by the All-Star break.

  39. Bob Says:

    So, the Yanks screwd Montero by moving him to a pitching-friendly stadium, while the Mariners hosed Pineda by sending him to a hitter-friendly park?

  40. Cameron Says:

    Yanke lefties on the road… I know right-center in Fenway’s far out, Camden has short porch… How are Rogers and the Trop? They look roomy, but I’m a terrible judge of depth.

  41. Cameron Says:

    Bob, first rule of negotiating, “A negotiation shall be considered successful when all parties walk away feeling screwed.”

  42. Bob Says:

    @41. The Yankees and their fanbase do not feel like they got screwed. As always, time-will-tell if they did.

  43. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 16 “Also, I bet the Yanks sign Madson next year, as I honestly think Mo retires.”

    Except that Madson wants no part of pitching in the AL.

  44. Chuck Says:

    MLBNetwork is reporting the Yankees are working on a David Robertson for Mark Trumbo deal.

  45. Raul Says:

    Sounds like trading for Mark Trumbo is about the Yankees getting that right-handed power bat to complement Alex Rodriguez now that Montero is out of the system.

    Eric Chavez being the designated hitter against righties and Mark Trumbo/Andruw Jones against lefties??

    Soriano moves into the 8th inning role, and whoever loses the starting rotation spot in Spring Training takes the 7th?

  46. John Says:

    @29, whatever bat the Mariners bring in is going to put up less than optimal numbers at Safeco.

    The Mariners need someone, anyone who can swat a big stick. You don’t not-sign a player because you’re afraid they won’t duplicate their prior numbers … you sign them because that player will represent an improvement over whatever joke you currently have.

    The Mariners as a team are kind of a joke altogether, actually.

  47. Raul Says:

    Actually agree with you John

    See, anything is possible

  48. Bob Says:

    @43 Touche. Never knew that.

  49. Cameron Says:

    Where would Trumbo hit in New York? I’m guessing he’d be the new DH?

  50. Raul Says:

    I thought he would bat against lefties but he hit most of his homers off righties.

  51. Cameron Says:

    Most of his ABs came against righties too. You know, because he was an everyday first basemen and saw a lot of pitchers, most of whom are righties.

    You know what I think is weird? Only 10% of the population is right-handed, but… I think it’s 25% of pitchers are left-handed.

  52. Raul Says:

    I think you made a typo

  53. Cameron Says:

    Yes I did, thanks for the note.

    Also, anyone watching Pats-Broncos? It’s like watching a trainwreck.

  54. Chuck Says:

    No.

    Watching the game would be like watching a blind man cross a freeway.

    Tebow’s a freak.

    The only difference between him and Todd Marinovich is a half ton of cocaine.

    I was a DB in high school, and I sit on the sofa watching Tebow throw and I feel like I can jump through the TV screen and intercept his throw, because he telegraphs everything.

    I’ve never watched a QB where I had that feeling.

    A year from now, people will be asking if Tebow’s still in the league.

  55. Cameron Says:

    I hate to say it… But I actually see some potential in Tebow. On one hand, he has such a low throwing angle that most passes I see from him can be intercepted by just about anyone and he spends too much time in the pocket for me to be comfortable watching him.

    On the other hand, he has a tremendous work ethic and he watches more tape than some head coaches do and when I see him, he does make smart plays. There are times when he can’t see when a guy is wide open, but I also see him make plays to guys that not a lot of others would make. He runs that offense well, the weak link in the offense is Tebow himself.

    I see some potential in the guy, he just needs some time to grow. Some people compare him to USFL/Tampa Bay Steve Young. I don’t think Tebow is anywhere near as good as Steve Young, but I could see him making that same kind of breakout given time.

  56. Raul Says:

    I just don’t see why Tim Tebow gets a shot to be an NFL quarterback, when other running QBs from college never got the shot.

    Eric Crouch?

  57. Cameron Says:

    Because Tebow was a great passing QB in college as well and he looked like he had potential. And seeing some of these games he’s started, he CAN run an offense. I mean, hate to say it, he earned that win against Pittsburgh.

    …Then again, he also has games like the game against KC. Sure I’m a blind homer KC fan and our secondary shut down Aaron Rodgers, but that game showed huge difficulties he has against pocket collapses and man-to-man coverage. Too long in the pocket and if you don’t give him an opening, he has trouble making one.

    I’m starting to see some of the hype around this guy, but I’m not holding my breath. He has the drive, work ethic, and head for the game to improve his game. He even managed to get a new throwing motion that has a release point about a foot higher, balls get a lot more air. Problem is if you pressure him he drops back to his old motion. The guy’s interesting to say the least. He can work a pro offense, I think, but he’s got a lot he needs to improve if he wants to do it.

    …Also, he only really has one real threat to throw to in Demariyus Thomas. He can throw to the backs well enough and Eddie Royal is a good package receiver, but there’s only one go-to guy on that team and no real go-to short option. If they really want to see Tebow produce, they need to put quality players around him. I mean, shit, Andy Dalton looks competent with AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham as targets and I’d take Tebow over Dalton 9 times out of 10.

  58. Chuck Says:

    Charlie Ward was a great passing QB in college.

    So was that Brennan kid from Hawaii. What’s he doing now, selling insurance?

    Tebow’s a nice story, but next year he’ll be back doing what he does best.

    Carrying a clipboard.

  59. Jim Says:

    Tebow is Joe Kapp, Chuck will remember Joe, and Tebow will have a nice career in the CFL.

  60. Cameron Says:

    I understand where you’re coming from Chuck. If he can’t keep the adjustments he’s trying to make up, he’s gonna be a bad quarterback. He tries, he has his moments, but his mechanics are killing him. Get out of the pocket quicker, learn how to go against man coverage, and get a higher throwing angle, you’ll be good.

    He can do… One of those, at the moment, and not consistently.

    I’m not saying he will be great, I have my doubts, but I won’t lie and say I can’t see the potential in the guy. He has his moments, but I wanna see if those moments are just those, moments.

  61. Chuck Says:

    I don’t know about that, Jim.

  62. John Says:

    Well, shit.

  63. Raul Says:

    Big win by the Giants.

    You have to give credit to Eli Manning for the way he played today — especially on 3rd down.

    But I can’t help to think that had the Packers not dropped so many passes, they might have won this game — even with the turnovers.

    …Buuuttt…things don’t work that way. The Packers DID drop passes and they DID fumble 3 times.

    *does the Discount Double Check dance*

  64. Cameron Says:

    Credit to Prince Amukamara and the rest of the Giants secondary, too. It’s hard to keep Aaron Rodgers from hurting you.

  65. Raul Says:

    Going back to 2004, not sure anyone knew who would be the better QB — Philip Rivers or Eli Manning. Rivers has shown the ability to be a great QB, but at this point, one has to give the edge to Manning, with a Super Bowl title under his belt and now sitting 1 game away from shot at another one. He’s also had more playoff success than Rivers. The stats do favor the Chargers QB though…

    Games
    Rivers: 100
    Manning: 121

    Completion Percentage
    Rivers: 63.6
    Manning: 58.4

    Yards
    Rivers: 24,285
    Manning: 27,579

    TD/INT
    Rivers: 163/78
    Manning: 185/129

    Rating
    Rivers: 95.5
    Manning: 82.1

  66. Cameron Says:

    Manning’s also had better targets and better coaching for his career. You really expect Norv Turner to lead anyone to a Superbowl? Dude’s such a jackass that I’m amazed they won any division titles. Rivers dragged those fucking teams to wins..

    Give these guys the same talent and coaching, ten bucks Rivers comes out the better QB.

  67. Raul Says:

    Norv Turner isn’t the reason the Chargers lost those games. Neither was Marty Schottenheimer.

    They’re just fall guys.
    …in my opinion.

  68. Cameron Says:

    I dunno, I’ve seen Turner make his fair share of “What the hell” calls. It’s probably more the fact I can name the good targets I’ve seen Rivers have on one finger than the coaches go. Antonio Gates is a hell of a tight end, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him have a true #1 receiving threat. Closest they had was… what, Vincent Jackson? LaDanian Tomlinson on option plays? He hasn’t had a lot to work with.

    Manning’s had Burress, Toomer, Shockey, Nicks, and now Cruz. Dude always has more than one go-to.

  69. John Says:

    The Chargers are ridiculously talented – they shouldn’t even have to comets for that weak division, but alas, they’ve come away empty two years in a row. I have to think some of that falls on the coach.

    I don’t understand how one of the most elite offenses in history can produce nine drops in a game. It seemed like only Rodgers and Driver showed up to play.

  70. Chuck Says:

    Let’s take the homer hat off and realize five of those drops were off bad throws.

    Rodgers didn’t necessarily have the best day, his timing was off just enough to put some throws in some difficult spots.

    I his defense the timing issues are understandable because the Packers hadn’t played in 3 weeks, but the Packers scored 14 points off turnovers too, so the game really wasn’t close.

  71. John Says:

    No, it wasn’t.

    Really, it should’ve been about 49-7. The fact that we still had a shot going into the fourth quarter is ridiculous.

  72. Raul Says:

    Early odds on next week’s games favor the Patriots by a 7.5, and the 49ers by 2.5.

  73. Chuck Says:

    So what they’re really saying is if the Giants were at home, they’d be favored by 3.5 or 4.

    I’d like to see a Patriots/Giants rematch, so there’s my picks.

  74. Bob Says:

    John, at least Miss Wisconsin won her contest.

  75. Chuck Says:

    Don’t even want to know what her “talent” was.

    Sheep shearing?

  76. Lefty33 Says:

    For some extra “depth” at the AAA level the Phils signed Joel Pineiro to a minor league contract.

    As of now they have a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Worley, and Blanton with Kendrick as the long reliever/spot starter (at 3.5 million, wow) and Dave Bush and Pineiro as AAA pitchers with a decent amount of major league time.

  77. Chuck Says:

    Not a bad signing Lefty.

    Could have been worse…you could have given ten million to Hiroki Kuroda.

  78. John Says:

    Chuck is apparently content to let AJ Burnett biff up 6 runs every 5 days.

  79. Cameron Says:

    “The Chargers are ridiculously talented – they shouldn’t even have to comets for that weak division, but alas, they’ve come away empty two years in a row. I have to think some of that falls on the coach.”

    Every team in the AFC West is one change away from being some of the best in the league.

    San Diego needs a #1 wide receiver
    KC needs a quarterback (Cassel ain’t cuttin’ it and Orton can’t touch the end zone)
    Denver needs a tight end (give Tebow a good short pass and Thomas can go deep)
    Oakland needs a #1 receiver (They could use more, but a good #1 will make them compete)

    One player for any of these teams can push these guys over the edge, really.

  80. Lefty33 Says:

    The Rockies are very close to signing Jaime Moyer to a minor league deal with a ST invite. As the career leader for home runs allowed it’s rather ironic that he might pitch for the Rockies this year.

  81. Cameron Says:

    Ironic? I think it’s the funniest damn signing I could ever think of.

  82. Bob Says:

    1.The A’s acquired Seth Smith for Josh Outman and Guillermo Moscoso.
    2. The Yankees and Hughes agreed on a $3.2 million for this year. That is a $500,000 dollar raise from last year.

  83. Chuck Says:

    It’s hard to predict suckiness, but between the A’s, Mets, Astros and White Sox, we could be looking at four 100 loss teams this year.

  84. Bob Says:

    Certainly possible.

  85. Bob Says:

    Graig Counsell will work in the Brewers front office.

  86. Cameron Says:

    I was making out predictions for my podcasts and it’s hard to peg teams… But after the implosion of the A’s and the addition of no real major-league talent (they’re one of the best AAA teams I’ve ever seen, though), I predicted them, no joke, to go 58-104. I can defend bad teams, but this is an indefensible piece of shit.

    Mark Appel, get used to Oakland. Or San Jose.

  87. Raul Says:

    Question is…

    Are the Oakland Athletics a profitable organization?

  88. Raul Says:

    Happy 37th birthday, Brad Fullmer! In the year 2000, you hit .295/.340/.558 with 32 homers and just 68 strikeouts. Quite good. Unfortunately, you were out of baseball by 2005. Steroids?

    Happy 52nd birthday, Charles Theodore “Chili” Davis! Chili Davis was basically Tim Raines, without the stolen bases. Yeah. I said it. Where’s HIS HOF candidacy?

    Happy 81st birthday, Don Zimmer! Zimmer’s last game appearance came on October 2nd, 1965. Tough day for the Senators that day. Mickey Lolich threw a complete game for the Tigers in front of an attendance of 1,908 fans. It must have been the longest 2 hours and 23 minutes of their lives.

  89. Chuck Says:

    Fullmer/Steriods=no question about it.

    First time I saw him in person was with the Angels and it was like “holy crap” at how big he was.

    After he left Texas he didn’t play for a couple of years then went to ST as a non roster invite a couple of years later. I was a game and he came out of the dugout to pinch hit and I saw the “Fullmer” on the back of his jersey and thought to myself “I wonder if he’s related to Brad”.

    Then the announcer said, “Brad Fullmer” and it was like I still didn’t believe it was the same guy, he was so skinny.

    Then he got in the batter’s box, and it was definitely him.

  90. Cameron Says:

    It’s easy to turn a profit when your payroll’s a nickel, Raul.

    Also, congrats to Counsell on a long career where he was a good player. Winning run for two World Series teams? That’s something to hang your hat on, man.

  91. Chuck Says:

    Florida in ‘97..who was the other one?

  92. Cameron Says:

    Arizona, 2001.

  93. Cameron Says:

    Okay, my bad, he was on first that year. Jay Bell was the winning run.

  94. Raul Says:

    Victor Martinez — out for the year.

    Not good, Detroit.

  95. Chuck Says:

    Wow, that sucks.

    What’s the winter workout program for a DH anyway? Walking the dog?

  96. Cameron Says:

    Batting cages and weight lifting, I guess. Not much else you can do if you don’t even keep a glove in your locker.

  97. Bob Says:

    That really sucks.

  98. Bob Says:

    Carl Crawford had arthroscopic surgery on his left wrist. Could miss some games to start the season.

  99. Cameron Says:

    Some games, but arthroscopy is one of the least invasive surgeries I can think of. Fast rehab, only reason he might miss games is because it’s only a few months to season’s start. He could easily be back by opening day.

  100. Raul Says:

    Carl Crawford is like Roger Dorn in Major League 2.

    Him being out eliminates a huge hole in the offense.

  101. Bob Says:

    Actually, I think he will rebound nicely this year.

  102. Raul Says:

    I’m sure he will.

    But his contract is awful.

  103. Bob Says:

    Fair enough.

  104. Raul Says:

    Well, if you thought this was a rather weak Free Agency class, next year’s is bound to be a lot worse.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=177

  105. Raul Says:

    There have been 31 contracts of over 100 million dollars in Major League Baseball, to the following players:

    Beltran, Carlos
    Brown, Kevin
    Cabrera, Miguel
    Crawford, Carl
    Giambi, Jason
    Gonzalez, Adrian
    Griffey Jr., Ken
    Hampton, Mike
    Helton, Todd
    Holliday, Matt
    Howard, Ryan
    Jeter, Derek
    Kemp, Matt
    Lee, Carlos
    Lee, Cliff
    Mauer, Joe
    Pujols, Albert
    Ramirez, Manny
    Reyes, Jose
    Rodriguez, Alex
    Sabathia, Carsten Charles
    Santana, Johan
    Soriano, Alfonso
    Teixeira, Mark
    Tulowitzki, Troy
    Wells, Vernon
    Werth, Jayson
    Zito, Barry

    Which would you say has earned (will earn) his contract?

  106. Brautigan Says:

    The funny thing with Raul’s list, with a few notable exceptions (Tulo), most of these contracts were based on what a player has already accomplished, not on what he will produce with his new contract.

    GM’s, you just have to love the level of stupidity that goes into that profession.

  107. Raul Says:

    Cole Hamels and the Phillies agreed to a 1-year, 15 million dollar contract.

    Looks like he’s going to be seeking a 100 million dollar deal as well.

  108. Chuck Says:

    AJ Burnett out, Cole Hamels in

  109. brautigan Says:

    Chuck @ 83: The Mariners are primed for a 100 loss season. While Seattle has a nice young infield, they also have Chone Figgins contract for two more years. That move is the very type of signing that will cost the GM his job.

    Much like Jason Werth, Alfonso Soriano, et el. The parade continues and Branch Rickey is shaking his head.

  110. John Says:

    “Well, if you thought this was a rather weak Free Agency class”

    Certainly wasn’t my thought. I recall the Angels snagging a pretty good 1B.

    I agree with 109 – especially with the trade discussed in this article.

    Really, Jack Z?

  111. Chuck Says:

    Two 100 loss teams in the same division?

  112. John Says:

    I believe in 2002, the Royals and Tigers pulled off this “accomplishment.”

    What about 2013, when the likely still hapless Astros join the division?

    Texas and Anaheim could both win 100.

  113. Raul Says:

    How is Texas gonna win 100?

  114. Cameron Says:

    A combined 54 games against Seattle, Houston, and Oakland, Raul.

    Though, to be fair, I see Seattle making some improvements and they are looking to add a big bat somehow, and they could do it next year if not this year. Plus Crane has more money than the old owner. We could see those two teams be only 90 or so losses.

    Though, I won’t be surprised if the A’s have back-to-back 100 losses.

  115. Cameron Says:

    Out of the list you provided, Raul… I’ll just stick with guys who I think were worthy of the contract before signing it, as some of those are current contracts and I don’t wanna look like a dumbass for posterity.

    Beltran, Carlos
    Brown, Kevin
    Cabrera, Miguel
    Crawford, Carl
    Giambi, Jason
    Gonzalez, Adrian
    Griffey Jr., Ken
    Helton, Todd
    Holliday, Matt
    Howard, Ryan
    Jeter, Derek
    Kemp, Matt
    Lee, Cliff
    Mauer, Joe
    Pujols, Albert
    Ramirez, Manny
    Reyes, Jose
    Rodriguez, Alex
    Sabathia, Carsten Charles
    Santana, Johan
    Teixeira, Mark
    Tulowitzki, Troy

  116. Kerry Says:

    @115, off the top of my head I also picked worthy contracts from Raul’s list, and got the same people as you, except for Brown. Then I went back and looked at his record, and he was actually pretty good most of those seven years. The Dodgers certainly got their money’s worth out of him; not so the Yankees.

  117. Cameron Says:

    I was talking walking into that contract. He didn’t earn the contract, but he was worthy of signing one off his years in Florida.

  118. Bob Says:

    Bud Selig gets to rule on compensation for Theo. Since we all know both sides will bitch and moan about a player, I say Selig tells the Cubs to part with $2 million dollars, of which $1 million will be treated as salary for CBA purposes.
    Also, the Sox get either the Cubs 2nd round pick or a sandwich pick in the 2012 draft.

  119. Raul Says:

    A 2nd round pick for Theo?

    I’m thinking more like an 8th rounder.

  120. Cameron Says:

    The Sox want a first-rounder for him, I know that.

  121. Bob Says:

    The Cubs gave him a promotion from GM to president of baseball operations.
    They also gave him a 5-year deal.
    Combine the two facts, and that should lead to something higher than a 8th round pick.

  122. Cameron Says:

    Say what you want about Theo (his free agent signings have had mixed results), but the dude’s one of the best-drafting GMs in the league. The big peices of that rotation and guys like Pedroia and Youk were homegrown by Boston.

  123. Bob Says:

    Yes. Just remeber that Youk was not drafted by Theo.

  124. Raul Says:

    What was Theo Epstein’s best move as a GM?

    He got a good season of Jason Bay for Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss. I’d say that was pretty good. Though part of the trade included Manny Ramirez being sent to the Dodgers — Manny was going anyway.

  125. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, he did what he could. Average rate of success tradewise and free agent-wise to be sure, but the Cubs signed him to restock that farm system, and that’s the one thing he did well in Boston.

    Also, Baseball America released their Top 10 Royals Prospects today. Looks good.

    1. Mike Montgomery, lhp
    2. Bubba Starling, of
    3. Wil Myers, of
    4. Jake Odorizzi, rhp
    5. Cheslor Cuthbert, 3b
    6. John Lamb, lhp
    7. Kelvin Herrera, rhp
    8. Jason Adam, rhp
    9. Chris Dwyer, lhp
    10. Yordano Ventura, rhp

  126. Cameron Says:

    Also, Pablo Sandoval avoids arbitration with a 3/17.15 deal. Not bad at all.

  127. Kerry Says:

    @117, actually, if you go by the $5M/WAR number people use (which I don’t), he was just about worth it during the contract, even including the Yankee years :-)

  128. Chuck Says:

    Less than five hours remaining on the deadline for Darvish.

  129. Chuck Says:

    You want to see a bad contract?

    Look at Pujols’.

    No way that doesn’t end bad.

  130. Cameron Says:

    It’ll end bad, but Pujols should produce well enough in the first half of it to at least justify it. I don’t think anyone wanted to pay the guy for ten years, but they knew they had to in order to do it.

    At least that deal’s $60MM cheaper than the initial asking price.

  131. John Says:

    There were two choices for acquiring Pujols.

    Acquire him for 10 years, or acquire him for 0 years.

    There’s no in-between.

    His last couple years could very well be like Anaheim setting fire to a pile of money. That’s just the price of doing business.

  132. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, but Pujols has been aging gracefully, plus he’s going to be against bad pitching and friendly ballparks for years. Gotta love it.

  133. Bob Says:

    @ 124.
    1. David Ortiz
    2. Curt Schilling
    3. Drafting Pedroia
    4. Drafing Papelbon

  134. Cameron Says:

    And Lester and Buccholz have to be up in that list, too. And who knows? Bard’s a decent enough pitcher, but I never knew there was a plan for him to be a starter until this year.

  135. Bob Says:

    He was drafted with the intention of him being a starter, but he struggled with his control as a starter in the minors, so the Sox thought they could still salvage him by turning him into a reliever/closer ala Papelbon.
    Now they need innings big time, and he is their best long-term option at providing them.

  136. Bob Says:

    This Saturday, Ryan Braun will accept his award, and then make a speech.

  137. Cameron Says:

    “Kids, don’t make love to unclean women. They’ll give you herpes and make you fail drug tests.”

  138. Mike Felber Says:

    Chuck things Pujols has about 4 more good months before his body collapses! Well i kid, he has backed off on the extreme decline within a couple of years…

    Though I do not think you can claim Pujols as aging gracefully. He was 31 this last season, an age when a player should be at or perhaps just passing his absolute peak. He had (for him) an off year, his weakest one. Chuck points out his physical challenges, that he is “old” for his age.

    I would love him to do great, but he would have had to have had a relatively down year at about 35 to say he was aging gracefully by performance. And having minimal injuries would have been evidence to that effect.

  139. Bob Says:

    The guess here is that come 2015 he “plays” at least 50 games as a DH.

  140. Cameron Says:

    A relative down year, but he was still top 10 in damn near everything. Come on, man. He didn’t fall off a cliff.

  141. Kerry Says:

    Yes, even though it was his worst year, Pujols had several positives:

    1. He didn’t miss too much time due to injury (which was a fluke, from which he recovered exceptionally fast).

    2. His BAbip through July was a paltry .253, which indicates some bad luck. Anecdotally, his teammates said he was hitting the ball well, just at people.

    3. His HR rate was still good, he just didn’t get as many singles and especially doubles as usual (which relates back to #2). If you just add 15 doubles to his totals (to account for hits that usually fall in for him but didn’t last year), his slash stats are .325/.389/.592, with a BAbip of .287, a much more normal year for him.

    4. His SO rate was still relatively low.

    On the negative side, he walked a lot less, but that was likely due to his reduced performance; if he returns to form, the walk rate will go back up. He also hit into a lot of GIDP, but he always has done that he had 27 in 2007, and MVP year, and 29 in 2011.

  142. Mike Felber Says:

    Nothing I nanyone said indicated anything like he fell off a cliff. Words & claims have specific meanings. I just said he meets no definition of “aging gracefully”. Again, two ways to look at that. Both must be definition be considered in accords with his age, which was only 31, when you would normally expect little or no decline. IF it was just a down year, you would expect at 32 he comes back at least as good as the average of all his other years-especially facing weaker pitching.

    The other criteria to analyze how well someone is aging is injuries & physical impingements. The point has been made that he is “old” for his age.

    Anyway, decline or maintenance must be considered relative to established levels of performance. If Pujols is not declining, he should post an OPS + not below the 170’s, certainly with that weaker pitching, arguably a little higher. And his defense would remain quite good.

    I am rooting for him to do these things. The fan ELO rater has him at #8 all time, just behind Gehrig. I think that after 11 years that is too high. Unless one is grading on a significant curve to account for the increased physical skills/training over time. But they are not showing this inclination at all.

  143. Chuck Says:

    Pujols’ is making $12 million this year, and $16 next year.

    On the final three years of his deal, his salary will meet or exceed the total of those two years.

    Why backload the contract?

    He won’t even be PLAYING in ten years, much less be a productive player.

  144. Bob Says:

    So… Darvish signed. As yours truly predicted.

  145. Mike Felber Says:

    That would have made sense Chuck. I do wonder if he could be a DH in a decade. I know you think he will be in a rest home by 38! ;-)

  146. Chuck Says:

    6/60 for Darvish.

    Surprisingly low contract compared to the posting fee.

  147. Raul Says:

    Six years is a lot to commit to a pitcher.
    Actually six years is a lot to commit to anyone. Most marriages don’t last that long.

  148. Bob Says:

    Similar to Dice-K.

  149. Bob Says:

    LOL at 148.

  150. Kerry Says:

    @143, well the Angels are paying $53M to Wells, Hunter and Abreu in 2012 (!!!), which might explain the low number to Pujols this year. Hunter and Abreu are free agents after 2012, which frees up $27.5M. Wells sticks around another two years; his contract was also backloaded, too — an average of $17M, but the next three years are $24.6M/year (ouch!).

    There’s a cautionary tale about backloaded contracts — any thoughts on whether Wells will make a comeback?

  151. Raul Says:

    Looks like Scott Boras is calling the Washington Nationals.

    If I’m the GM in Washington, my offer on Fielder just dropped by 20 million.

  152. Mike Felber Says:

    Is this a fair critique? http://www.stlcardinalbaseball.com/how-much-does-racism-affect-team-building-today

  153. Raul Says:

    The only way the Vernon Wells contract can be somewhat mitigated is if the Angels put a lot of high OBP men around him. Then hope Wells can drive them in.

    Wells won’t get on at a .400 clip, but if guys are around him on base…if he can hit .260-.270 and get himself 100 RBIs, it won’t look/feel as bad.

  154. Cameron Says:

    I don’t think the reason that there’s so many latino players concentrated on so many teams is racism or preference, I think it’s that… Well, let’s face it, compare the number of kids in Latino countries that want to be ballplayers to the number of kids in America who wanna play ball. That’s why I applaud organizations like RBI, trying to reinvigorate baseball to kids.

  155. Cameron Says:

    Well Raul, they’ve got Kendrick locked up for the next five years, so there’s a good threat at the top of the order for a while. Plus Pujols gets on at a decent clip. …If he doesn’t clear the bases first.

  156. Raul Says:

    A player wanting to associate with people of his race is nothing new.
    The article somehow suggests that this hurt the Cardinals in recent years. Really? It’s Pujols’ fault Colby Rasmus was a lazy player and jerk? Didn’t the Cardinals WIN TWO WORLD SERIES TITLES in the last decade?

    Frankly, I find the demand that a team get you latin players is stupid and ridiculous. I can only speak for myself. I would want to be surrounded by good players. I don’t care if they’re Chinese, American or Arabic.

    Furthermore, I find this article’s subtle cry of reverse racism to be pathetic and sad — and perhaps more suitable for a South Carolina Republican Debate.

  157. Cameron Says:

    Speaking of Arabic, the half-Persian Yu Darvish is the closest to an Arabic MLB player we’ve gotten so far I think.

  158. Mike Felber Says:

    I honestly do not understand your meaning Raul. If it is stupid & ridiculous to demand players of a certain race, & you do not deny that Pujols did so-or the claims about him being more friendly & accommodating for Latin ballplayers-how is the UNsubtle cry of reverse racism at all invalid?

  159. Raul Says:

    I suspect that Pujols, like anyone else, finds it comforting to be in a clubhouse with a player who understands his culture, and with whom Pujols can share certain things and relate to.

    I have no idea if Pujols made explicit demands that teams find Latin baseball players.

    I do think it would be stupid of an athlete to demand to have Latin players on his team, at the expense of having a better player. And I would like to think (given that I have been an athlete), that most players feel the same way. In a small (or significant way, depending on how you view it), the desire to win supercedes everything, and in my opinion, helped to integrate baseball and sports to begin with.

    The writer’s example of Colby Rasmus is stupid.
    The writer’s example of Rafael Furcal is also stupid. First of all, everyone in baseball predicted that Furcal would be back and such opinions were written long before the playoffs were over. Pujols left, and…they signed Furcal anyway? Totally Pujols’ influence — I’m sure.

    The fact is, teams sign Latino players because Latino players just happen to be some of the best in the world.

    You ever been to a baseball game lately? Check out who’s in the stands. Check out ticket prices. You think it’s Latinos attending the games? You think they’re the ones subsidizing these contracts? That they’re the ones MLB is after?

    Please. The last thing MLB is trying to do is engratiate themselves to the Latino Community. Trust me.

  160. Cameron Says:

    Pujols didn’t talk to Colby Rasmus because Tony LaRussa didn’t like him, not because he was white.

    And Raul… Hate to say it, but if a team targets Latinos over white guys, they’re probably gonna get better players on average.

  161. Raul Says:

    It’s one thing if you’re Omar Minaya-ing your team.

    It’s another if you’re getting good baseball players.

  162. Brautigan Says:

    Perhaps Pujols buddied up with D.R. players because they really knew he wasn’t born in 1980?

    What a silly article.

  163. Jim Says:

    The source of the lede in the Pujols & race article is from the Marlins. How sour are those grapes?

  164. Raul Says:

    During his age-31 season, Alex Rodriguez hit .314/.422/.665. This past season Alex played in 99 games and hit .276/.362/.461.

    During his age-31 season, Vladimir Guerrero hit .329/.382/.552. This past season Vladimir played in 145 games and hit .290/.317/.416.

    Albert Pujols just came off his age-31 season, having hit .299/.366/.541.

    A-Rod is now 36 years old. Guerrero is also 36 and he might be out of the game.

    I suppose we should pay attention to how the rest of Alex Rodriguez’s career plays out because it would seem Albert Pujols is destined to follow a very similar path.

    Alex made history with his contracts in terms of money and years. And when his career is over, I have a feeling he’ll also be a model for any future General Managers that are asked to consider long, expensive contracts.

    BTW, it was widely believed that Alex would go on to break Barry Bonds’ home run record of 762. Rodriguez sits 133 homers away, though it’s no guarantee he’ll ever get there. With six years remaining, he needs to average 22 homers a year. No easy feat as one gets older.

  165. Cameron Says:

    He also gets about another $30MM in incentives in the span he sits between Willie Mays and Barry Bonds on the home run boards.

  166. Mike Felber Says:

    Thanks, that’s why I solicited opinions on the article. The cases made are convincing. Though the claim is not really that MLB is prioritizing attracting Latino fans-they will go for the money, which is overwhelmingly white- but what they did or Pujols demanded to placate him. It seems their case is biased & inaccurate.

    Though i would not use unadjusted #s Raul, your case is sound. Those guys age 31 season was at the tail end of the steroid era, Alex would not have as dramatic advantage over Albert in OPS + (176 to 150). It was his last hurrah, likely the best year at the plate by a slight margin. Actually I am a little surprised he has not aged better, given his great talent. I wonder if PEDs are a part of this. He was essentially dishonest about details of his usage, so I wonder if he used more than he claimed…But he has such skill that I am surprised with modern training & all he is not nearly as good at the same ages since 31 as guys he has comparable talent to-Aaron, Frank Robinson, Schmidt…

    Vlad has fallen off even earlier. His last significantly good year was at 32. I attribute that to being such a great “bad ball” hitter. That is, it takes superb reaction time & timing to do this at MLB level, almost nobody can do it. When he loses a bit of that, still swinging at stuff out of the K zone, your performance will suffer.

    He would have done better to have taken walks, now he does not have the power to get ‘em as much. His walk rate last year was awful-17 in 145 games! I see him now as about a borderline HOFer.

  167. Raul Says:

    I understand, Cam.

    30 million dollars is a lot of incentive.

    But Alex turns 37 in July. And his contract runs another 5 years. An optimist could argue that a healthy Alex could hit 30 homers this year. But if he doesn’t, I highly doubt he ever will again.

  168. Chuck Says:

    http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/17/2712967/mlb-puerto-rico-talent-draft

  169. Cameron Says:

    The other big latin countries that produce ballplayers I can think of are the DR and Venezuela. You know the difference between those two and Puerto Rico? Puerto Rico has money, kids don’t need to work hard to be ballplayers to get jobs like they do there. Just a thought, but I think they aren’t focusing on baseball because they don’t need to.

  170. Raul Says:

    Perhaps you give PR too much credit, Cam.

    PR is in the middle of a huge drug problem, and I seem to recall reading the island has a lot of people on welfare and out of work.

    As bad as DR or Venezuela? I have no real way of comparing them.

  171. Chuck Says:

    Never been to PR right, Cam?

  172. Cameron Says:

    Admittedly, no, but the GDP per capita of DR and Venezuela is only roughly the same as PR itself. While PR ain’t exactly rich, they’re also not a complete hole of a country.

  173. Raul Says:

    BTW,

    Neyer started the article off well enough, but by the time I finished it I thought “What the hell is your point?”

  174. Cameron Says:

    It’s Rob Neyer, so I’m guessing the point was “Look at me! I have a keyboard!” And nothing of substance past that.

  175. Raul Says:

    Speaking of silly writing…can we get Shaun Payne back?

    Just for laughs…

  176. Bob Says:

    Throwing this out there. Want me to do an article on players who could be traded if their team sucks come mid-July? I kind of have an idea on the ALEast, and was kind of thinking it would be a six-part series.
    Not sure how popular it would be, and I am/was waiting for Prince, Darish and Edwin Jackson to sign. Give them their day in the sun. But damn, it is Jan. 18th
    Secondly, if popular, anybody want to take a division? I will take the ALEast, and perhaps we can space it out ala one division every 3-4 days?
    Merely soliticing opinions. Thanks

  177. Cameron Says:

    I could do another AL Central preview. I know y’all liked my piece last year.

  178. Raul Says:

    Fire them b*tches up…

  179. Bob Says:

    John, tomorrow evening. I will submit an article on players who could be traded by Al. Eat teams. Trying very hard to find one position player and one pitcher from each team.
    Not sure I can promise that type of research from another division. Yet!!!

  180. Bob Says:

    Meant ALEast teams. Although it is not yet noon, must be time for lunch.

  181. John Says:

    Looking forward to it!

  182. Raul Says:

    Happy 33rd birthday, Byung-Hyun Kim! Wait? 33? That’s it? Word is you just signed a contract for some Korean team.

    Happy 39th birthday, Chris Stynes! I basically just know your name. I have no idea if you were any good. You were probably a juicer though.

    Happy 41st birthday, Phil Nevin! You single-handedly ruined a chance for the Reds to get out of Ken Griffey Jr’s contract and somehow managed to hit 41 homers in 2001 for the Padres — back when they played in Qualcomm. You were totally a juicer.

    Happy 43rd birthday, Orlando Palmeiro. What’s that? You’re not related to Rafael? Well, you actually SHOULD have taken steroids, because you sucked. Seriously? A 13 year career based on .273/.351/.350?? Surely you were a defensive genius. Shortstop? No? What? OUTFIELDER? Dear god….

    Happy 50th birthday, Chris Sabo! Sabo was your 1988 AL Rookie of the Year, having beat out Mark Grace, Tim Belcher, Ron Gant and Robbie Alomar. Sabo is from Detroit. Detroit was founded by the French. So it really should be pronounced De-Twah…or something like that.

  183. Chuck Says:

    “Throwing this out there. Want me to do an article on players who could be traded if their team sucks come mid-July?”

    David Wright.

  184. Bob Says:

    Lol at your write-ip of Chris Stynes. Funny thing about Detroit. They had Greek town and Mexican villiage. No French restaurants that I recall. Although about 5 years ago, Detroit won a survry amongst athletes as having the worst restaurants among cities that housed a sports team.
    Wonder if they ever tried Stroh’s beer.

  185. Cameron Says:

    I wonder where KC is on that list. There’s a shitload of good BBQ here.

  186. Brautigan Says:

    Phil Nevin. The only player to give me his batting gloves.

    Reminds me of the 1992 Tucson “Fucking” Toros. The PCL champs that year, with MVP James Mouton. They had more fights amongst themselves that season than Sugar Ray Robinson had in his career.

    When I get the time, I’ll write an article about Orlando Miller vs. Jeff Juden. Huges laughs.

    Oh, and an aside, I’m retiring at the end of the month so I will have more time to devote to some articles that I have been kicking around in my head.

  187. Raul Says:

    I want to applaud Brautigan for flying in the face of retirement at age 65 and working through the robust age of 137.

    Cheers, my friend.

  188. Bob Says:

    The survey is at least 5 years old, possibly older. The only reason I remembeer it was because Detroit faired so poorly.

  189. Bob Says:

    Braut, congrats. Hope that also gives you more time for your beloved gin and tonics.

  190. Cameron Says:

    Rest in peace umpire Marty Springstead. In 1973, he became the youngest umpire to ever chief a World Series crew at the age of 36.

  191. Chuck Says:

    #174

    You just described 90% of the internet.

  192. Chuck Says:

    Puerto Rico is a strange bird.

    I haven’t been there in a few years and even when I was it wasn’t like I was running for governor or anything, so I have no idea on their fiscal solvency.

    It should be plainly obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than the average daily temp in Mayaguez (thus, eliminating Neyer) that the islands’ changing economy carries an effect throughout society, which includes ten year olds playing Little League.

    The island’s population in 1960 was 2.4 million, last year’s census had it at just under four, so in fifty years it’s gone up a mil and a half.

    But when you look at the population growth rate, it’s been below zero since about 1997, which means the overall population rate has fallen in each of the past fifteen years.

    There are a lot of business opportunities in the bigger cities and suburbs such as San Juan, Ponce, El Dorado, Santurce, Mayaguez, etc, so the population of those cities individually has grown.

    Which only means the natives from the remaining towns and villages are dying off, their kids and grandkids (ex. my wife and her brothers and sister) are leaving the island early for better opportunities in the states.

    I believe the opposite of what Neyer said is true, the draft hasn’t impacted the Puerto Rican players, the lack of Puerto Rican players is reflected in the draft.

    http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:PRI&dl=en&hl=en&q=puerto+rico+population#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_pop_grow&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:PRI&ifdim=country&hl=en&dl=en

  193. Chuck Says:

    Yoennis Cespedes is playing Winter ball in the Domincan, and stinking the joint up.

    But he did hit his first bomb of the year yesterday.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120119&content_id=26388876&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

  194. Cameron Says:

    So moderate talent with bad results that will likely be a gross overpay? GET THIS MAN A MARLINS UNIFORM!

  195. Bob Says:

    The Indians signed Fred Lewis to a minor-league deal with a spring-training invite.

  196. Raul Says:

    The track record for cuban baseball players has not been good lately.

    El Duque and Livan Hernandez had their moments. Livan had a solid career. Hernandez didn’t get to the Majors until he was already coming off his peak years.

    But Jose Contreras? Aroldis Chapman? Underwhelming.
    Anyone remember El Duquecito, Adrian Hernandez? 44 Major League innings.

  197. Chuck Says:

    I believe Adrian Hernandez is the pitching coach for the Yankees’ FSL team in Tampa.

  198. Raul Says:

    I have fond memories of El Duque as a Yankee in 1998.

    But without a doubt, my favorite El Duque moment:

    October 7, 2005.
    White Sox at Red Sox

    Bottom of the 6th inning.
    4-2, White Sox lead.

    Manny Ramirez leads off with a home run off Freddy Garcia.
    4-3, White Sox lead.

    Damaso Marte comes in to relieve Garcia — and promptly allows a line drive single to Trot Nixon, then walks Bill Mueller and John Olerud.

    Bases loaded. Bottom of the 6th. White Sox lead 4-3. Zero outs.

    Orlando Hernandez relieves Damaso Marte.

    Hernandez gets Jason Varitek to foul out to 1B.
    Then he gets Tony Graffanino to pop out to short.
    Then he strikes out Johnny Damon.

    End of inning.
    4-3 White Sox lead.

    They would win 5-3 to sweep the Red Sox of the ALDS 3-0.

  199. Chuck Says:

    Joe Magrane’s daughter on American Idol

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/wall/article.jsp?content_id=26391602

  200. Kerry Says:

    OK, we’re in real trouble here on DC if we’re talking about American Idol :-)

  201. Mike Felber Says:

    Great, a couple of folks are writing articles! Let’s try to get them in at around the same time, so that there is a good amount of fresh content at one time, or one following the other. When at least one newbie feature comes out, I will publicize it where I have previously to bring fresh blood & commenters in.

    I love a lot of Steve Tyler’s old music, he has a great blues sensibility & great impassioned R & R spirit. But WTF re: his comment? Everyone was so dumbfounded it immediately became silent, seemed like the sound was turned off. Can’t he just appreciate feminine charms, all those adorable girls, without sexualizing a 15 year old?

  202. Cameron Says:

    You think that’s bad, one of the auditions in KC passed every judge but Tyler because he thought her performance was too energetic and she needed to tone it down. …The same guy who fronted fucking Aerosmith.

  203. Mike Felber Says:

    I wonder if this is a sexist hypocrisy? Though there are many modern singers who perform everything over the top, using soulless vocal pyrotechnics, when the material does not call for it, while all expressive nuance & much real feeling is lost when everything is turned up to undifferentiated “11″.

  204. Cameron Says:

    Well Mike, the person who auditioned (family friend) also had a decade of stage and musical theater. Turning it up was kind of her thing. I just laughed at Steven fucking Tyler of all people saying she needed to tone her act down.

    Whatever, Stevie, go buy another scarf for your mic.

  205. Raul Says:

    Shark Sandwich was a fantastic album.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAc-HaW_gzs

  206. Raul Says:

    Actually wanted the movie version, my bad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8JiQCIzCZA

  207. Cameron Says:

    Shit Sandwich.

  208. Mike Felber Says:

    Fair enough Cam. Best to recall the good music. This is a pretty effective video mashup of a good song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt2MrQqm0Ls

  209. Chuck Says:

    Funny, yes.

    Unexpected?

    Not really.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120119&content_id=26393456&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

  210. Lefty33 Says:

    In a sad turn Gary Carter’s daughter said yesterday that his most recent MRI showed lots of new spotting on his brain and his diagnosis is bad.

    He also fell in his doctors office for the second time in under a month and this time he tore his rotator cuff.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/sports/baseball/gary-carters-condition-worsens-daughter-says.html

  211. Chuck Says:

    Just read the same thing..in a different paper.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/more_tumors_in_carter_brain_uqS1dzKS6Y3iLkZtrU1qkO?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

  212. Raul Says:

    Unfortunate news for Gary Carter.

    LOL @ Fausto Carmona.

  213. Raul Says:

    So now that Ryan Braun is a juicer…who else is out there?
    Besides Jose Bautista…

  214. Chuck Says:

    Let’s just say it comes out that Pujols really is 33 and not 31..do the Angels void the last two years of his contract, or even the whole thing?

  215. Raul Says:

    They’d consider it, I’m sure.

    As great as Pujols has been, to pay a guy that money until he’s 43? Wow.

  216. Chuck Says:

    With the new CBA allowing for steriod testing, I’m looking forward to seeing the guys who aren’t on them anymore, which would prove they were to begin with.

    Waiting for Jacoby Ellsbury to show up at spring training weighing 160 pounds.

  217. Cameron Says:

    53, Raul, he’s also got a guaranteed job as Special Assistant to the GM for ten years after the contract is over.

  218. Chuck Says:

    In a shocking development, the Rangers aren’t interested in Prince Fielder and are no focused on giving $100 million dollars to someone who actually deserves it.

  219. Bob Says:

    The Indians signed Ryan Spilborgs, while the Rays and carlos Pena are “deep” in talks. Looking at the Rays roster closely.

  220. Cameron Says:

    Carlos Pena going back to Tampa? Might do him some good.

  221. Raul Says:

    Happy 29th birthday (we think), Geovanny Soto! Soto was your 2008 NL Rookie of the Year, beating out Joey Votto, Jair Jurrjens, Edison Volquez, Jay Bruce and Kosuke Fukudome.

    Happy 37th birthday, David Eckstein! Baseball-Reference says your nickname is “Just Enough” — which might be the worst nickname of all-time. A World Series MVP, you had exactly 1 season in which you were average…and 9 where you were really bad.

    Happy 41st birthday, Brian Giles. I think I read that you beat your wife. Or girlfriend. You’re a jerk. Follow Louis CK’s joke and suck a bag of d*cks.

    Happy 47th birthday, Kevin Maas! In 1990 you lit up the league and in true NY Media hysteria, were crowned the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth. The following year you were effectively washed up. Even Shane Spencer had a longer career.

    Happy 48th birthday, Ozzie Guillen!! Your 1985 AL Rookie of the Year (and Godsend to writers everywhere) beat out — Wow, what a crappy rookie class. Nevermind.

    Happy 78th birthday, Camilo Pascual! The Cuban sensation pitched 18 seasons in the bigs, and kudos if you knew he led the Majors in strikeouts from 1961-1963. Sure seems to me that Pascual was a good pitcher for some pretty bad teams.

  222. Cameron Says:

    Happy birthday Ozzie. Get used to not having a DH spot to stick your Mark Kotsays in.

  223. Bob Says:

    John, I just sent one to you.
    Raul, your birthday write-ups are fantastic.

  224. Bob Says:

    The Rays signed Carlos Pena.

  225. Chuck Says:

    I remember Pascual…led the AL in K’s three times, complete games three times, was a five time all star and was a 3 time 20 game winner.

    Not bad for a guy who barely weighed 170 soaking wet.

  226. Cameron Says:

    Carlos Pena is an odd player. He hit .225, but got on base at about a .360 clip. I’ve never seen someone with contact THAT bad draw so many walks.

  227. Cameron Says:

    If I may contribute something for my love of old music, I’m a bit sad at the moment. Etta James has finally succumbed to her respiratory problems. Rest in peace, Etta James.

  228. Cameron Says:

    My bad, it was leukemia. I knew she was on assisted breathing, so I assumed respiratory failure.

  229. Cameron Says:

    And I have just been informed my cousin Susanna passed away. Liver failure leading to multiple organ shutdown. She was only about 30 or so I think, she always seemed so lively…

  230. Brautigan Says:

    Pascual was a very good Cuban pitcher. He had some lean years as a Senator, but he sure hit his stride as a Twin.

    I believe his brother passed away last year.

  231. Chuck Says:

    So, let’s see if I have this right.

    Carlos Pena leaves Tampa a year ago in a hissy fit because they wouldn’t give him a multi-year $12-15 million deal, so he takes a risk on a 1/10 with the Cubs.

    Then goes back to Tampa on a one year, $7.25 mil deal?

  232. Cameron Says:

    No one else was willing to give him even that I think.

  233. Bob Says:

    Chuck, he will make $17.25 over 2 years this way. Only 12-15 last year.

  234. Raul Says:

    So…

    Jack Cust signed with the Astros.
    Joel Zumaya signed with the Twins.
    Oliver Perez signed with Seattle.
    Brady Anderson was named special assistant to the executive vice president of baseball operations for the Baltimore Orioles.

    Impressive. Oliver Perez got a Major League job before Prince Fielder.

  235. Chuck Says:

    Impressive, Jack Cust got a major league job before Prince Fielder.

  236. Chuck Says:

    Sorry, I mis-typed that.

    Impressive, Jack Cust got a major league job.

  237. Lefty33 Says:

    Based on what I saw Cust “do” last year during his brief stint in AAA for the Phillies all I can say is only the Astros would offer him anything at this point other than a ham sandwich.

    To quote Daffy Duck: “Yikes! and away”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5GlGEuONA

  238. Bob Says:

    The Yankeees and Brett Gardner avoided arbitration. Will earn 2.8 million this year. See how easy that was, Romney?

  239. Bob Says:

    1.The Indians acquired Kevin Slowey from the Rockies in exchange for Zach Putnam. Hoping the Rockies win this one.

    2. The Nationls extended Michael Morse.

    3.TGIF!!!

  240. Cameron Says:

    The A’s got Johnny Gomes, so at least SOMEONE on that team can hit.

  241. Chuck Says:

    “The Nationls extended Michael Morse”

    So, that puts them out on Fielder?

    Milwaukee said today they’re over budget and don’t think “they could make something work” on Fielder.

    The way he’s going, he’ll be lucky to get a contract from the Bad News Bears.

  242. Cameron Says:

    Good move by Washington. Morse had a HELL of a season last year and if he comes close to this, a reasonable extension is good.

  243. Raul Says:

    Mike Morse was busted for PEDs a while back, I think.

    Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was on HGH this past year, in a move to get a big contract before the revised drug testing took place.

  244. Cameron Says:

    Just checked, ten-day suspension in the minors in ‘05.

    Funny thing? He came into the league as a shortstop, but was blocked by Yuniesky Betancourt.

  245. Mike Felber Says:

    RIP Etta James. I am a big blues fan, more so Delta, but saw her more than once at group shows. She was so large, perching precariously on stools…Quite hard to make it even to 73 when you are morbidly obese. Impressive indeed is a likely severely obese BB King, with Diabetes, alive & still playing at 86.

  246. JohnBowen Says:

    “The way he’s going, he’ll be lucky to get a contract from the Bad News Bears.”

    You mean the Mariners?

    Pretty much the same thing.

  247. JohnBowen Says:

    Bob’s new article is up under features.

  248. JohnBowen Says:

    With Prince Fielder’s weight and all, I could see why teams would want a more durable player.

    Most Games Played (2006-2011)

    1. Prince Fielder
    2. Adrian Gonzalez
    3. Ichiro Suzuki
    4. Miguel Cabrera
    5. Nick Markakis
    6. Dan Uggla
    7. Jeff Francoeur
    8. Michael Young
    9. Robinson Cano
    10. Mark Teixeira

    Huh. Too bad there…isn’t one.

  249. Chuck Says:

    Sour grapes do make the best w(h)ine, John.

  250. Bob Says:

    Notice how 40% of that list is comprised of 1st basemen?

  251. Raul Says:

    Who cares about 2006-2011?

  252. John Says:

    It’s the duration of Fielder’s career, and he’s missed 12 games.

    Not per year.

    Total.

  253. Raul Says:

    So what?

    Mo Vaughn was pretty durable too.
    And he wasn’t 275 pounds.

  254. Cameron Says:

    Mo Vaughn played more than 150 games a season 3 times in his career and missed 2001 altogether. Fuck kind of durability is that?

  255. Raul Says:

    He was durable before he signed the contract with Anaheim, you jagaloon.

  256. Cameron Says:

    Durable? Yeah. Not on the same level as Fielder, though. Prince missed 12 games over the course of six season. Mo Vaughn missed more than that in three of his non-rookie seasons before Anaheim.

  257. Chuck Says:

    Contrary to popular belief, free agent contracts are almost always based more on past performance than future.

    Fielder is an exception to the rule, and I think his dad is indirectly playing a role in that.

    Cecil was pretty durable during his short career, and he went from All-Star to has-been almost overnight.

    Look at Frank Thomas, he played 19 seasons and was a full time DH for 11 of those.

    As a first baseman, he was a two time MVP, had two other top three finishes in the voting, was a five time All Star ( in seven and a half seasons).

    He led the league in games played once, runs once, doubles once, walks four times, OBP four times, SLG once, and OPS four times.

    After he became a DH, he had two top five MVP finishes and led the league in nothing.

    And had no All Star appearances.

    Not even token Derek Jeter appearances.

    Zip.

    As a position player, Thomas played seven seasons and his LOWEST WAR was 5.3.

    As a DH, he played eleven years an had TWO seasons with a WAR above 4.0.

    IMO, getting to 600 homers makes it virtually impossible to justify not voting for Jim Thome, despite the length of time he spent at the DH.

    Thomas needed 11 years as a DH to get to 500, and even at that he barely made it.

    Combine that with the fact that even during his prime when he played defense everyday he was arguably the worst first baseman since Dr. Strangeglove, there is no way I would vote Thomas as a HOFer.

    Prince Fielder is Frank Thomas lite.

    Teams look at what Fielder has accomplished so far and probably think he’s worth maybe $16-18 million.

    He’s not in the Pujols/Teixeira/Gonzalez category, but ranks at the top of the second level of first baseman.

    But when a GM looks at an 8/170 contract, and then look at his dad and guys like Thomas, there’s no way he’s getting that, either in length or in money.

    We’re five weeks from the start of spring training and not only has Fielder not signed, he hasn’t even got an offer yet.

    Tell you anything?

    We’re about two weeks from Scott Boras walking into Mike Rizzo’s office and giving him a blowjob.

  258. Cameron Says:

    Considering that Morse can play LF and LaRoche has to be on thin ice, I’d still call the Nats an absolute contender for Fielder, but I think the dude’s gonna be a Mariner.

  259. Cameron Says:

    Frank Thomas is a weird case. After he transitioned full-time to the DH in ‘98, he started a slow decline that went into a rapid crash. Was there some sort of nagging injury that just wrecked him? That’s about the only thing I can think of, because he collapsed in what should have been his prime. Dude was on track to be one of the greatest ever.

  260. JohnBowen Says:

    “Combine that with the fact that even during his prime when he played defense everyday he was arguably the worst first baseman since Dr. Strangeglove, there is no way I would vote Thomas as a HOFer.”

    There’s a lot more to the story than 500 HR. Such as:

    “As a first baseman, he was a two time MVP, had two other top three finishes in the voting, was a five time All Star ( in seven and a half seasons).

    He led the league in games played once, runs once, doubles once, walks four times, OBP four times, SLG once, and OPS four times.”

    I think that stuff will get him in, rather easily, on the first ballot…as he deserves.

  261. Raul Says:

    Why would Washington want to give Fielder 150-170 million?

    They’ve already burned money on the Jayson Werth deal and they’re going to need all the money they can find to re-sign and pay for arbitration for the talent they already have — provided they pan out.

    Zimmermann, Storen, Espinosa, Harper, Rendon, Purke…

    No guarantees, but I’m not potentially losing one of them in 2017 because some fat fuck played 157 games in 2006.

  262. Chuck Says:

    “Mo Vaughn missed more than that in three of his non-rookie seasons before Anaheim.”

    Then he started taking roids…

    Justin Smoak missed a month last year because he broke his hand on a tag play, and another month with a broken nose suffered when a bad hop caved it in.

    Prince Fielder plays 160 games a year because he fucking stands at first base.

    The Robin Yount statue outside Miller Park has more range than he does.

    Boras is going to have to cave to get Fielder signed, and quite frankly, the longer it goes on, the worse it looks for him.

    Personally, I’d love for Fielder to be unsigned when ST starts, and have to take a one year deal somewhere for pennies like Carlos Pena did last year.

  263. Mike Felber Says:

    That’s like saying John Wayne Gacy was pretty peaceful in the brief span before his serial killer career began-& after incarcerated. An overstated analogy.

    Definitelt the Scariest Clown Ever. http://www.museumsyndicate.com/artist.php?artist=475

  264. Cameron Says:

    I don’t think Fielder is on that same level as Gonzalez, Pujols, and Tex either. Those guys can run and field, but I’m not gonna immediately assume Fielder will fall off a cliff.

    If I’m offering a contract to him, my initial offer is 5/90, with 2 club or mutual options to push it to 6/110 and 7/132. Maybe even the opt-out he wants if that’s the case, but if he wants the opt-out, I’m backloading that 90 to be on the 4th and 5th years to mitigate losses.

  265. Chuck Says:

    “(in seven and a half seasons).”

    You have to play ten to be HOF eligible.

    If you take his five best seasons as a DH and give him a 12 year career, you end up with Albert Belle or Kirby Puckett.

    The one that’s actually IN the HOF is arguably less deserving than the one who isn’t, and both were full time defensive players their entire careers.

    Thomas will get in, but that’s different than me voting for him.

    I will bet you he’s not first ballot, though.

  266. Raul Says:

    5 years, 90 million?

    For Fielder?

    I’m not giving him 5 years. He’s 27. He’ll be 28 in May.
    3 years, 40 million.

    And that’s generous.
    And you get him on the market for one last contract from some sucker team.

  267. Cameron Says:

    The DH may really hurt his chances. Only real guy with significant DH numbers in right now is Paul Molitor. However he WAS a first-ballot and I’d call Thomas better than Molitor, so I don’t think it’s out of the question.

  268. Cameron Says:

    Raul, the thing is if he really wants that opt-out, I’m anticipating him taking it on most likely only being on the hook for 3/45 or so. If he does chew my salary for a couple years, I made that club/mutual option be there for a reason. It’s to help him sign, but there is no way in hell I actually exercise it.

  269. Chuck Says:

    By the time they’re 40, ARod and Fielder will be banking $30 million a year as replacement level DH’s.

    Fielder will be eligible for the HOF when he’s 40.

    Speaking of, Fielder’s not even in the discussion right now for the Hall.

  270. Raul Says:

    Christ.
    The last year you could consider Frank Thomas a first baseman was 1996.

    You can understand why people hate the DH.

  271. JohnBowen Says:

    “But when a GM looks at an 8/170 contract, and then look at his dad and guys like Thomas, there’s no way he’s getting that, either in length or in money.”

    Look, I agree with you.

    Prince Fielder isn’t worth 8/170, not even close.

    But not based on (nonexistent) potential injury likelihood, or who his dad was or anything like that.

    Prince Fielder is a poor fielding 1B with no discernible speed. He’s a big bat – he essentially beats you in just one way.

    Albert Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez and Mark Teixeira, in addition to demonstrating roughly the same (in Pujols’s case, better) might with the bat are all gold glovers. Troy Tulowitzki can beat you in about 18 different ways.

    No way would I give Prince Fielder much more than 6/120, and that’s pushing it…just cuz, I don’t think he’s been quite that dominant a ballplayer. Very good, sometimes great? Absolutely. But his career WAR’s the last 5 years are 3.8, 2.1, 6.1, 2.7, 5.2. So, at worst, he’s above-average, and at best, he’s a solid all-star caliber player. He’s had an OPS+ above 130 each of the last 5 years, but never led the league. I think those are good figures, but I don’t think those numbers are worthy of a Teixerian contract.

    But if people are afraid of committing a multi-year deal to him because of his weight?

    He’s been proving those people wrong for about a decade now. He’ll never get drafted, too fat. Well ok, he got drafted because of his pa…but he’ll never make the big leagues (too fat). Well ok, he made it, but he’s not going to be an all-star. And at age 23, he hits 50 HR.

    Fact of the matter is that no player has proven more durable over the last 6 years than Prince. None. Zippo. It’s not like he’s going to get fatter…and by the way, he’s only 28, so a 6 year deal isn’t putting him in his 40’s like it would for some guys.

    Absolutely worth an investment from a team like Seattle with like, negative offense. But not nearly worthy of the sky-high figures that Boras was throwing out there.

  272. Cameron Says:

    Not right now, but he might be if he keeps up this level of play. I have my doubts. While he is showing a freakish level of durability and is in shape for a guy his size… He still IS a guy his size. I’m reserving judgement for now, as I know he can fall off a cliff, but he’s such an anomaly for his size that I don’t know if it’s smart to assume he’ll be like guys his size in the career arc. If he’s defying the patterns now, he could keep defying them.

    I think he’ll be an overpay regardless, but I don’t know if it’ll be as disastrous as Chuck and Raul think.

  273. Raul Says:

    Red Sox traded Marco Scutaro to the Rockies for 26-year old reliever Clayton Mortensen.

    So it appears Jose Iglesias and Mike Aviles will compete to be the starting shortstop.

  274. Cameron Says:

    I’m pulling for Mikey, if only because the dude was a real fan fave here in KC.

  275. JohnBowen Says:

    “He was durable before he signed the contract with Anaheim, you jagaloon.”

    Mo Vaughn missed 21 games in 1997.

    Or, 9 more than Prince has missed in 6 seasons.

  276. Raul Says:

    So Fielder has even more wear on his even fatter-than-Mo-Vaughn body?

    Exxxxcellent.

  277. Raul Says:

    I’m pretty sure Aviles is not getting the starting job.

  278. JohnBowen Says:

    Yeah, he’s going to fall over and collapse from fatness any day now.

    Or, you know, play 162 games next year. Again.

  279. Raul Says:

    If you define any day now as 5 years…then it’s virtually a certainty.

  280. Cameron Says:

    In five years or within five years? Because five years from now, I’ll definitely be wary. Any day between then and now? I dunno.

  281. Mike Felber Says:

    Your comments about Fielder;s prospects on the field & what he might receive when signing seem astute Chuck. But the opinion that Thomas is not a legitimate HOF man is a real outlier.

    .301/.419/.555 even in the ‘roid era translated to a 156 OPS +. In over 10,0000 AB. That includes his declining years, clearly his peak value was quite high, even had a 211 OPS + in ‘95.

    No adjustment for DH or defensive weakness is gonna mean a guy like that is not a HOF man. The value he produced was great even considering these things. there is lots if indication that it is harder for most to produce offenseively without playing the field.

    But more to the point, it is rare for anyone to produce as much offensively in a long career-these all time leaders include some with shorter careers, like Dick Allen, who was not skilled with the glove & is a clear HOF man. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/onbase_plus_slugging_plus_career.shtml

    One way to look at it is to have a long career, or even a much shorter one of 7000 + AB & not be HOF material. Maybe with a large ding for DH you can say he misses with 7000 AB. But with a high peak & 5 digits of AB, no reasonable DH penalty means he is not a no brainer for the HOF.

  282. JohnBowen Says:

    Based on what, exactly? The fact that it happened to his dad?

    Well, my Dad has never run faster than a 9 minute mile, probably, in his life. So the sub-5’s I was throwing down in high school must be imaginary.

  283. JohnBowen Says:

    “Christ.
    The last year you could consider Frank Thomas a first baseman was 1996.

    You can understand why people hate the DH.”

    Why would that be a reason for people to hate the DH?

    I mean, I think it’s a stupid rule. I don’t hate it because it helped Frank Thomas be wildly successful as a hitter.

  284. Raul Says:

    You’re right.
    Prince Fielder will remain reliable EXACTLY because he’s a 300-pound fat fuck.

    How could I be so silly?
    ……

  285. JohnBowen Says:

    Or, because he has a pretty solid track record of being reliable year-in and year-out regardless of what weight he is.

    It’s not like he was a jeans model in 2006 and just kept piling on weight. He’s always been this fat and continuously been roughly this successful.

  286. Raul Says:

    You have no concept of the aging process, do you?

  287. JohnBowen Says:

    Someday, Prince Fielder is going to be told he can no longer play baseball at the professional level.

    Maybe he’ll be 40, maybe he’ll be 37, maybe he’ll be 32.

    But all the “experts” proclaimed he’d never even make it and they’ve been wildly rebuked.

    So, you’ll forgive me if I don’t take the “he’s fat! he’ll implode” seriously, as it reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.

  288. Mike Felber Says:

    @265: OK, taking The Big Hurt for all his years played is the only sensible way to consider how good he is. He was a historically great hitter while playing the field. He more than added enough value in his DH years to be deserving. That is understating it.

    I can the logic behind Edgar Martinez being denied, though to me he clearly is good enough. But Martinez did not hit as well, lifetime or peak, nor play as long-they are not close in total career value.

  289. JohnBowen Says:

    Frank Thomas also never got to hit in between two of the very best players who ever lived.

  290. Cameron Says:

    Normal age progression? …I’d say Raul might be on track here. Most guys start seeing that drop-off around 33. So a five year deal would be the smartest thing IMO.

  291. Chuck Says:

    “Well, my Dad has never run faster than a 9 minute mile, probably, in his life. So the sub-5’s I was throwing down in high school must be imaginary.”

    Your dad liked girls and you don’t.

    Not seeing point here.

  292. JohnBowen Says:

    “Your dad liked girls and you don’t.”

    Chuck’s go-to response for when he’s lost. You’re GAY.

    I’m not. And the ugliest girl I’ve ever dated is probably hotter than the hottest girl you’ve ever dated.

  293. Chuck Says:

    Leave John alone you guys.

    He’s going through a real tough time and just dealing with depression.

    The Packers lost.

    His favorite player is a juicer.

    His second favorite player told the Brewers to fuck off.

    By the end of July, 30% of their opening day 25 man roster will be playing elsewhere.

    Come August, he’ll actually MISS Yuniesky Betancourt.

    So, really, chill.

    At least now when he talks like a dick, I almost feel sorry for him.

  294. Chuck Says:

    #292

    Funniest comment you’ve ever posted.

  295. JohnBowen Says:

    “The Packers lost.”

    Must be rough, on me, with my team having just 4 more NFL championships than any other team.

    “His favorite player is a juicer.”

    Probably not.

    “His second favorite player told the Brewers to fuck off.”

    It was kinda the other way around, actually.

    “By the end of July, 30% of their opening day 25 man roster will be playing elsewhere.”

    7.5 players? Can you do math? Is Corey Hart going to do weekdays in San Fran and weekends in Milwaukee?

    “Come August, he’ll actually MISS Yuniesky Betancourt.”

    He’s the worst player in baseball…and I don’t put any stock into “contact percentage”…so no, I won’t miss him.

  296. JohnBowen Says:

    @294, truth hurt?

    I mean, you talk a big game, and all, but that’s rather easy to do on the internet.

    I’m in the middle of a 6-way (with 5 girls).

    Ok, I’m not. But it was pretty easy to type that.

  297. Cameron Says:

    “Come August, he’ll actually MISS Yuniesky Betancourt.”

    …Fuck, I JUST remembered who’s roster he’s on.

  298. JohnBowen Says:

    Yeah. I mean, it’s one thing to acquire him as a price for also acquiring a former Cy Young award winner.

    It’s another thing to have had him, gotten him off your hands and actually, consciously thought “I want that guy back.”

    By the way, Chuck, you hear back from the Brewers yet? Kinda weird of you to badmouth your future team…

  299. Raul Says:

    LOL Are you really taking credit and joy for championships won in the 1960s?

  300. JohnBowen Says:

    Your right. The Packers haven’t won anything recently.

  301. Raul Says:

    2011 is one thing.
    The 1960s is something else entirely.

  302. JohnBowen Says:

    You don’t revel in the glory of Ruth and Gehrig and Mantle? I would.

    I’ve been a Packer fan my whole life; I started really watching when I was 7.

    In that time, they’ve made the playoffs 11 times, appeared in 3 super bowls, winning two, and had the league MVP twice about to be thrice.

    So, I feel relatively spoiled being a Packers fan.

    Then I remember that I’m also a Brewers fan. Sigh.

  303. Raul Says:

    LOL

    The only way Mantle is relevant in this thread is if someone says with the DH, he’d have hit twice as many homers as Frank Thomas.

  304. Chuck Says:

    LOL John.

    You conveniently forget where I come from.

    I worked for the 79-80 New York Rangers.

    The Maloney Brothers, Ron Duguay, Ron Greschner, Don Murdoch.

    Chippendales on skates.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNjntNHHUs0

    The parties after home games at Charlie O’s next to the Garden were packed with the hottest girls you’d see.

    The leftovers we’d go home with were all model material.

    The hottest girl you’ve been with wouldn’t have got past security.

    Women who chase rich athletes and their friends don’t hang around on the docks waiting for pimply faced Navy boys who think an athletic supporter is someone who likes sports.

    Chicks who roam the docks only do so because they don’t have enough seniority for their own street corner.

  305. JohnBowen Says:

    For someone who likes to accuse other people of being gay, Chuck, that youtube link is just about the gayest thing I’ve ever seen.

    “Women who chase rich athletes and their friends”

    Are generally low-class skanks?

  306. Cameron Says:

    *watches the commercial*

    You… You sure they were attracting chicks? Because that was one of the gayest things I have ever seen.

  307. Chuck Says:

    The commercial wasn’t even close to being the point.

    Idiots.

  308. Raul Says:

    LOL

    I feel like Chuck was Moe, clunking Larry and Curly’s heads together in that last comment.

  309. Mike Felber Says:

    Actually, the commercial supported the point, but I agree with Chuck here. Put aside his silly, at best, gay baiting. When I was in College A Sociology commercial made reference to this Joe Namath commercial to show how athletes who were unimpeachable straight or macho could play with identity & roles without their masculinity being questioned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf3oOQq9KFU.

    We have ironic ally become much more liberal about not hating gays & folks of mixed sexuality compared to then. Soon the haters will be seen about as universally as vicious & misguided as a stereotypical white southern racist. But with all the midea attention to these issue, we seem to have lost a bit of the ways people could just be playful & ironic, secure in their sexuality.

    There are tons of reasons to be skeptical of Giuliani, but the # of times he dressed up as woman are not one of them.

  310. Mike Felber Says:

    I meant to write that a Sociology Professor made reference to the commercial above.

  311. JohnBowen Says:

    The point of 304 was Chuck trying to prove his manhood to people 1/3 his age.

    Real men don’t need to do that.

  312. Bob Says:

    @273. Nick Punto is also on the mix for SS.

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