National League Awards Predictions – 2012

by JohnBowen

Following in last week’s theme, here are the top beginning-of-season contenders for National League awards:

MVP: Troy Tulowitzki, Colorado Rockies (SS)

Tulowitzki is an MVP contender basically every year; between his power bat and elite defensive ability (has led the league in range factor in four of his five years in the big leagues, fielding percentage twice, and has averaged 1.8 dWAR/162 in his career). For the past 3 years, he has averaged .304/.376/.554 (still a 134 OPS+ at Coor’s) from the shortstop position with 30 home runs and 97 RBI’s. He’s off to a good start, homering in his season debut.

Runners-up: Kemp (LA), Votto (CIN)

Cy Young: Zack Greinke, Milwaukee Brewers

Zack Greinke makes his first start of the year later today, and there’s every reason to believe that this year he’ll bounce back to elite form (though it’s hard to see him matching his historic 2009 season). He posted a 12-3 record, with a 2.59 ERA and a .654 OPS-against after the all-star break last season – much closer to his actual abilities than what was seen in the first half, when he was recovering from a rib injury sustained during spring training. His ability to rack up strike-outs while avoiding walks – combined with the extra motivation of a contract year – could make this a year to remember for the 27-year old right-hander.

Or maybe, I’m just being a homer.

Runners-up: Halladay (duh) (PHI) and Lee (PHI)

Rookie of the Year: Yonder Alonso, San Diego Padres (1B)

Yonder Alonso got the gift he needed in the form of a trade out of Cincinnati, where he was blocked at first base by Joey Votto (who will be a Red forever). He tried left field, but it wasn’t a good fit, so he was traded in a several-player deal involving Mat Latos and Edison Volquez, and now he has a starting gig at the big leagues. The only problem?  He’s playing at PetCo Park, which is notoriously unfriendly to batters. If he hits .275/.350/.430 for the Padres, with around 15-20 home runs and 30-40 doubles, that should be good enough to lock down the award.

Runners-up: Delgado (ATL), Cozart (CIN)

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340 Responses to “National League Awards Predictions – 2012”

  1. Raul Says:

    No Braun?

  2. Raul Says:

    Well this is interesting.

    Blue Jays vs Indians

    Brandon Morrow
    7 innings, 1 hit, 2 runs, 3 walks, 3 strikeouts

    Ubaldo Jimenez
    7 innings, 1 hit, 2 runs, 3 walks, 3 strikeouts

    The difference is that Morrow had 0 Earned Runs. Both of Jimenez’s runs were earned.

    Blue Jays took the lead 3-2 on the strength of a Kelly Johnson home run in the top of the 9th. But with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th, Asdrubal Cabrera hit a home run of Sergio Santos to tie it.

    So after a 16-inning affair to open the season, the Jays and Indians will go to extras again.

  3. Raul Says:

    Mets outfielder Lucas Duda, who hit 10 home runs in 347 plate appearances last year, just hit his 2nd of the game against the Braves.

    NY might have something with this kid.

  4. Raul Says:

    Top 12. Scored tied at 3.

    Edwin Encarnacio doubles off Tony Sipp.
    Brett Lawrie singles.
    1st and 3rd, zero outs.
    Rajai Davis smacks a double to right center. Brett Lawrie scrambles and scores from 1B.

    5-3, Blue Jays lead.

  5. Raul Says:

    Royals lead the Angels 5-0. Moustakas and Hosmer went deep.

    In Fenway, Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera have 2 homers each.

  6. Raul Says:

    Excuse me, that should be in Detroit.

  7. Raul Says:

    Wow and in Arizona, Aaron Hill also hit 2 HR.

  8. Chuck Says:


    Thankyou, new dimensions at CitiField.

    Even David Wright went yard.

    Oppo, as usual.

  9. Raul Says:

    The revisions to the field will help them this year, but Wright’s homer was over 400 feet. I guess you could nitpick and say that pitch should have gone more directly to CF.

    Duda’s 1st homer might not have cleared some other fields, but that was a line drive to CF. His 2nd homer would have been out anywhere.

  10. JohnBowen Says:

    Not bad so far on my Cy Young pick. Zack Greinke went 7 shut-out innings today, giving up 3 hits, no walks, and striking out 7.

  11. Chuck Says:

    Greinke’s my Cy pick as well.

  12. JohnBowen Says:

    Ladies and Gentlemen…ok, gents…Chuck and I agree on something.

    Pop the champagne?

  13. Chuck Says:

    We picked him for different reasons.

    I saw him three times in spring training and he was easily the best pitcher I saw, and that includes Gallardo, Felix, Cain, Kennedy and Chapman.

    You just picked him because he’s a Brewer.

    He pitched for any other NL team, he’s not even an afterthought.

  14. JohnBowen Says:

    Actually, Chuck, your observations played into my pick.

    Along with the fact that he’s in a contract year, he has a much better defense behind him this year (finally escaping Betancourt’s shadow), he isn’t coming off a rib injury, he’s shown that he can do it before (hence the entire reason we traded for him), he led the league in some predictive peripherals last season, and frankly, his stuff is nasty.

  15. Bob Says:

    Regardless, pop the damn champagne. Just share some with me..

  16. Bob Says:

    A couple of minor league notes.
    1. Anthony Rendon hurt his leg.
    2. Dylan ( not Al ) Bundy had a nice debut.

  17. Raul Says:

    …and they want to make Rendon a 2nd baseman

  18. Chuck Says:

    With Zimmerman at third for the next six years, no where else for him to go.

    If Ackley can handle second, no reason Rendon can’t.

  19. Chuck Says:

    Manny Banuelos yesterday

  20. Chuck Says:

    Nick Franklin’s started the season with three straight multi-hit games.

  21. Chuck Says:

    John will be happy with this;

  22. Raul Says:

    It seems like every Yankees prospect that gets hyped, turns out to be much worse than expected. Like, exponentially worse.

    But the unheralded guys seem to be quality players.

    Maybe that’s a perception thing. If you tell me Banuelos is supposed to be the next Johan Santana and he ends up being Boone Logan, that’s a disappointing difference. Meanwhile, Ian Kennedy was considered to be peanuts next Joba Chamberlain and he put up a Cy Young-type season last year.

  23. Cameron Says:

    Hey guys, sorry I wasn’t on yesterday. Anyway…

    MVP – Joey Votto
    2nd – Troy Tulowitzki
    3rd – Ryan Braun

    For the record, the guy who will deserve the MVP this season is likely Ryan Braun, but the sportswriters will be really touchy about voting him MVP after the PED scandal and give it to a safe pick in Votto, who will be a good coin flip with Tulo once defense is accounted for. For some reason, I think Kemp is gonna slump to half his expected outcome. By Matt Kemp’s standards, that’s 25/25. Still good, but not the MVP. Also, I expect Hunter PEnce to have a really good season this year. Not close enough to compete realistically, but I see him going as high as fifth place on a few ballots.

    Cy Young – Tim Lincecum
    2nd – Clayton Kershaw
    3rd – Roy Halladay

    For some reason, my gut’s telling me The Freak is gonna be real good this year. I’m sticking to that. I expect Greinke to be 4th or 5th. Not win, but have a good year.

    Rookie of the Year – Trevor Bauer
    2nd – Devin Mesoraco
    3rd – Yonder Alonso

    From what I’ve seen scouts say, Bauer’s in a good spot to be extremely fast-tracked. I think he actually was a September call-up last year. Another guy to watch for is Julio Teheran. He could blow everyone else away or he could finish the season in Gwinnett. Notoriously streaky.

    Comeback Player of the Year – Adam Wainwright

    Not sure if Strasubrg is eligible since he had a little bit of time last season after his TJ to bounce back. If he is, expect it to be close since Strasburg will likely be on a looser leash.

    Manager of the Year – Mike Matheny

    Mike’s in a good chance to win a division title in a first year manging role without Pujols. Though I think the guy who will do the most for their team this year is Ozzie in Miami. I expect him to fix Carlos Zambrano, and if that isn’t a good manager, I don’t know what is.

    …Now, let’s see how bad I fuck up.

  24. Chuck Says:

    NL MVP-Mike Stanton
    AL MVP-Miguel Cabrera
    NL Cy-Zack Greinke
    AL Cy-Jered Weaver
    NL ROY-Devin Mesoraco
    AL ROY-Yu Darvish
    NL Comeback-Buster Posey
    AL Comeback-Adam Dunn

  25. Raul Says:

    Phil Hughes can be so goddamn frustrating.

    1st inning: With 2 outs and and 0-2 count to Evan Longoria, he throws 2 balls and gives up a double. Then Matt Joyce hits a triple, which could have been caught if it wasn’t botched by Raul Ibanez in RF. 1-0, Tampa.

    3rd inning: Strikes out Jennings to lead off the inning. Then gets Carlos Pena in an 0-2 count. Pena gets the count full and then hits a home run. 2-0 Tampa.

    Yeah, I get it. 3 innings, 2 runs. It’s not the end of the world. The Yankees are still in the game, but Hughes is now up to 69 pitches through 3 innings.

  26. Raul Says:

    And Pena hit another home run.
    Or maybe they’re saying the fan reached over.

    Either way, Hughes isn’t fooling Pena at all.

  27. Raul Says:

    Jason Hammel’s got a no-hitter going for Baltimore through 7 innings.

  28. Raul Says:

    4.2 innings for Hughes.
    He leaves with the Yankees down 2-0 and runners on 1st and 2nd and 99 pitches thrown.

    I just have to wonder if with another team, or in another era, he would have been allowed to pitch his way out of it.


  29. Raul Says:

    Jose Molina looks like he’s 30lbs heavier than he was 2 years ago.

  30. Chuck Says:

    “I just have to wonder if with another team, or in another era, he would have been allowed to pitch his way out of it.”

    Four and two thirds is more than enough time to “pitch through it”, and so is 99 pitches.

    Actually, considering the Yanks prior history with Hughes, I’m impressed they let him go that long.

  31. Raul Says:

    I dunno, Chuck.

    Hughes wasn’t lights out today and he pitched himself into trouble, but still…it was 2-0.

    If the Yankees didn’t lose the first two games…suppose they were in the middle of a 7-game winning streak, I don’t think Hughes gets the hook. Or at least, I don’t think he gets the hook if he was playing for KC.

  32. Raul Says:

    Anyone else noticing how closely the Pirates have been playing the Phillies?

    Every game was 1-run game.

  33. Raul Says:

    So 38 years ago today, Hank Aaron hit #715

  34. Chuck Says:

    Hughes threw 66 strikes out of 99 pitches…that’s ridiculous.

    Yes, he threw alot and probably went three and two on most every hitter, but he was close enough to the zone where alot of balls were fouled off or could just as easily been called strikes instead of balls. Probably had a lot of movement on his fastball or too much on his breaking stuff.

    Not a bad problem to have.

    Hellickson went into the seventh and threw fewer pitches, and his strike percentage wasn’t as good.

    Looking at it, Hughes had a pretty good outing.

  35. Chuck Says:

    “So 38 years ago today, Hank Aaron hit #715″

    I remember it like it was yesterday.

  36. Raul Says:

    The commentators made a pretty good point about Hellickson:

    By and large, the Yankees weren’t exactly fooled by him. He made his pitches and the Yankees just didn’t get base hits. A couple of shots went right at people.

    Still, 8 innings and 3 hits is impressive for Hellickson.

    If Hughes doesn’t give up those hits to Longoria and Pena — when he had them 0-2…who knows.

    Jeff Samardzija went 8 innings of 3-hit baseball, striking out 7 Washington Nationals. I hope he does well this year. I picked him up in the 23rd round in my fantasy league, but I have him on the bench.

  37. Raul Says:

    re: #715

    Are there any moments like that in sports anymore?

    The memory of McGwire’s 1998 is stained.
    Nobody cared about Bonds’ #73 or his #756.
    I remember watching Ripken get 2,131 and thinking “Wow, this is really long. Can we get back to playing the game now?”

  38. Chuck Says:

    I noticed watching the game yesterday that Teixiera seems to have closed his stance a little bit.

    He’s still too open and his weight is too far back and he still back legs everything.

    The guy’s strong enough to hit the ball out of any part of the ballpark, why he or anyone else would sacrifice half the field is beyond me.

  39. Raul Says:

    Teixeira is too pull-happy.

    The way he hits, he’s essentially the same thing the Yankees got with Jason Giambi, except with better defense — for 70 million more dollars.

  40. Raul Says:

    Miguel Cabrera hits a 3-run shot in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game at 10 with Boston.

  41. Chuck Says:

    Off their new closer, Alfredo Aceves?


  42. Raul Says:

    Cory Hart with his 3rd home run of the season today.
    Wasn’t this guy supposed to be on the DL with a leg injury?

  43. Raul Says:

    And Alex Gordon is 0-for-the-season.

    Maybe he’d see better pitching if he wasn’t leading off and batting in front of Lorenzo Cain and Alcides fucking Escobar.

  44. Cameron Says:


    85% of his ABs are left handed, 50% of his ABs are at Yankees Stadium, right field is 314 feet away.

    You tell me why he’s a pull hitter.

  45. Raul Says:


    Because he’s stupid. You hit the ball where it’s pitched. And if the team is giving you half the field, you fucking take it.

  46. Cameron Says:

    Not saying being a dead pull hitter is a good thing, but the dude’s in a good situation to exploit the hell out of it.

  47. Raul Says:

    Well this is fantastic.

    After the Red Sox take a 12-10 lead in the top of the 11th inning, Detroit comes back with a 2-out home run to win it 13-12.

  48. Raul Says:

    First weekend of the season, New York and Boston are 0-6.

  49. Bob Says:

    Nobody here had Boston winning the division or having a top 3 MVP or Cy Young candidate. Look for the sellout streak to come to an end this year.

  50. Bob Says:

    In 5 innings Matt Barnes gave up 2 walks and 2 hits wile striking out 9. Solid debut for him.

  51. Raul Says:

    I thought Matt Barnes went kinda late in the draft.

  52. Bob Says:

    The Dodgers had no money, and neither did the Mets. And he went 19th overall.

  53. Cameron Says:

    @49 Don’t have ‘em for a division, but second AL Wildcard, with Tampa/New York being the other one. Don’t see them getting past that game though.

  54. Jim Says:

    @46, given that the Sox are promoting “good seats still available for the 2 upcoming games at Fenway, the sell out string is likely to end. Two mid April night games? Better to watch from home or at the local.

  55. Chuck Says:

    Last time the Yankees started 0-3 was 1998.

    Last time the Yankees and Red Sox started 0-3 in the same season was 1966.

    Last time the Yankees started 0-3 and Mets 3-0 was 1985.

    Next time anyone cares about this will be the first.

  56. Raul Says:


    Happy 28th birthday, Adam Loewen. I remember Loewen as a prospect coming up with a few years back. Big guy. Not sure if he was just terrible or if injuries messed him up. He last appeared with Baltimore in 2008 as a 24-year old pitcher. He’s now a Minor League outfielder for the Mets, having spent the last 3 seasons in the Blue Jays organization. In Las Vegas at AAA in 2011, he hit .306/.377/.508 with 17 home runs.

  57. Cameron Says:

    Wasn’t injuries, he was just a terrible pitcher, went to Toronto and became an outfielder. He’s in a bit of a logjam there, though.

  58. Raul Says:

    Not sure how much of a logjam there is with the Mets.
    But Loewen would have to have impressive bat control to get around pitches at the ML level, as big as he is.

  59. Chuck Says:

    Loewen led the AFL in homers in 2010

  60. Cameron Says:

    Oh, he’s with the Mets? …Nah, he can get called up there.

  61. Chuck Says:

    Loewen was the Mets’ last cut in ST..someone in the organization has a man crush on Mike Baxter, otherwise he would have been the fourth OF/lefty PH.

  62. Cameron Says:

    Yu Darvish takes the mound in about 30 minutes.

  63. Cameron Says:

    Just checked the box score for the game so far. Darvish has given up 4 runs on 4 hits to the Mariners. In the first.

  64. John Says:

    Yikes. That’s pretty bad.

  65. Cameron Says:

    And three walks. One with the bases loaded. Also, it became a 5 run, 42-pitch inning.

  66. John Says:

    Not sure who the Cubs color guys is, but he *nailed* something in the Brewers-Cubs game just now.

    Ryan Braun singled T. Plush over to second. He then called at Plush (after the play) and nodded towards the third base coach. The announcer caught this presumed that someone on the Cubs noticed too and predicted that the Cubs pitcher would do an inside pick-off move on the first pitch.

    Sure enough, that happened…Morgan took off for second and was picked off.

    It ended up saving a run, as Aramis Ramirez doubled in his return to Wrigley Field to score Braun.

  67. Chuck Says:

    Writing now for Jonathan Mayo’s new minor league blog on

    First post.

    Don’t worry, will still be here and with Mike Silva, and should have my own site up shortly.

  68. Chuck Says:

    Hey John..I have a comment that needs approval.

    Thanks, bud/.

  69. Chuck Says:


    Bob Brenly

  70. JohnBowen Says:

    Cool stuff, Chuck.

  71. Mike Felber Says:

    Very nice Chuck! Keep us posted on your web site.

  72. Raul Says:

    Ian Kinsler got a 5 year, 75 million dollar contract.

    I really don’t get it when it comes to Kinsler. Everyone says he’s good but I don’t see it. He’s not. He’s incredibly overrated.

    A career .276/.356/.471 hitter, if it weren’t for the hitting conditions in Arlington, he’d ride the bench.

    This is a guy who hits .309/.396/.529 at home, and .242/.315/.412 on the road.

    Folks, is simply does not get more Jekyll-and-Hyde than that.

  73. Bob Says:

    Chuck, solid post. And congrats on the new gig.

  74. Cameron Says:

    Nice post indeed, Chuck. Where do you think Green ends up in that massive logjam? There’s three good prospects between Green, Choice, and Taylor, plus Cespedes who could be good (who knows).

  75. Raul Says:

    Congratulations, Chuck.
    Also, my condolences on having to work with John Mayo.

    To be fair, at least it’s not Ken Rosenthal.

  76. Bob Says:

    Reddick might be a player. You guys see his throw last night?

  77. Cameron Says:

    Mayo’s not that bad, Raul. He says some dumb stuff, but just about anyone working as a sports journalist does. Mayo knows it’s better to say less, though. Less you say, less you can fuck something up.

    And Bob, I didn’t count Reddick in because he’s got the lowest ceiling in Oakland’s outfield mix. However, he’s the closest to reaching it.

  78. Bob Says:

    It was a bit of hyperbole on my part. But that was a throw.

  79. Cameron Says:

    I know what you mean, Bob. I remember good throws. There’s the one throw everyone remembers. I think it was 2001, Ichiro’s rookie year in a game against Oakland. Beautiful laser throw to nail Terrence Long at third. Willie has The Catch, Ichiro has The Throw.

  80. Raul Says:

    Reddick could be a solid player. Problem is, too many of us think a player or prospect is worthless if they aren’t putting up .300/.400/.500.

    If anyone wants to direct that comment to my comment about Ian Kinsler above, well, .276/.356/.471 isn’t bad. But it’s not 15 million per year, either.

  81. Raul Says:

    I think Willie Mays’ catch was overrated for 2 reasons.

    1. It really wasn’t that hard for Mays to make — which kinda speaks about his talent, so kudos to him.

    2. Perhaps most importantly — Wertz was robbed. No. Not because Mays made the catch…but because Mays even had the ability to make the catch. Wertz hit that ball over 450 feet. FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY FEET. That should have been a home run on mere principle.

    If Adam Dunn crushed a ball 500 feet and Josh Hamilton caught it, it’d be bullsh*t…because nobody should be catching 500-foot bombs.

  82. Chuck Says:


    In two years, Oakland’s OF “should” be Cespedes in left, Green in center and Michael Choice in right. I’m still a believer in Michael Taylor, but his window is closing big time. I see him and Domonic Brown in the same category, massively talented players who, for some reason, just can’t figure shit out.

    I’ve met Mayo once, about two years ago in AZ, and he seemed like a good guy. In reading his stuff, he seem more on top of his game then the usual crowd, in our emails back and forth the last couple of weeks things were pretty cool. We’ll see what happens with it.

    Reddick is a fourth OF, he’s got the arm, he can play all three OF positions, and with 250-300 PA’s a year might be a valuable commodity to a good team. Playing everyday for a shit team will only showcase his lack of a dominant tool or relevant skills.

  83. Cameron Says:

    @81 The 450 hit is the reason it’s overrated. Sure, you couldn’t hit a ball 450 feet to dead center anywhere else but the Polo Grounds, but if you can run out that far playing standard depth, you’ve earned your spot in history.

  84. Cameron Says:

    @80 I’ll chalk that up to the fact those numbers are coming from a second baseman. He’s not that good on the road, but he’s still better than most guys at his position.

  85. Cameron Says:

    Finally got around to filing my tax return this year. No refund, sadly.

    Could be worse. Least I wasn’t audited.

  86. Chuck Says:

    The government would lose money auditing you, Cameron.

  87. Raul Says:

    How much worse could things get with an audit?
    You’re already living in Ohio.

  88. Chuck Says:

    My accountant told me a few years ago the IRS doesn’t care about anyone who doesn’t gross six figures, and the chances of an audit are less than winning the lottery.

  89. Chuck Says:

    lol @#87

  90. Cameron Says:


    Eh… I got nothing to come back with. It fucking sucks up here.

    Oh, and Steelers fans are assholes.

  91. Bob Says:

    Cameron, have you met more Pittsburgh fans or Cleveland fans? And have you met any Bengal cheerleaders?

  92. Jim Says:

    Reddick can look like a pretty decent player if you only look at his season stats. He may end up with a line of .270/.325/.575, but for 2 months he’ll hit .400 and during the rest of it barely stay over .150.

  93. Bob Says:

    Vin Scully is ill, and will not be able to call the Dodgers home opener. Only 2nd time in 63 years.

  94. Raul Says:

    Typo, Jim.

    I know you didn’t mean to suggest a slugging of .575.

  95. Cameron Says:


    Surprisingly, I’ve met ONE Browns fan here, and it’s my neighbor’s (roommate’s sister) son. He’s 9. Whoever makes a 9 year old a fan of the Browns deserves a kick in the nuts. Everyone else in this town is a fucking Steelers fan.

    Except Melissa’s brother Mike. He’s a Redskins fan.

  96. Raul Says:

    Scully is 84.

    Guy can’t do it forever. It’s gonna be weird for Dodgers fans without him.

    I’m not old enough to recall Mel Allen and only had a few years of listening to Phil Rizzuto, but Yankees games aren’t the same for me anymore without Bobby Murcer. And if you never attended the old Yankee Stadium and listened to Bob Shepherd, I feel sorry for you.

  97. Cameron Says:

    Denny Matthews has been calling Royals radio since day one in 1969. I know the feeling of how losing him would feel.

  98. Mike Felber Says:

    I agree on Reddick Raul, but it takes nothing away from Mays due to the park. baseball allows these variations which are a part of the charm of the game-some stadiums used to be more than the 475′ of the Polo Grounds to dead center. bill Jenkinson said Ruth hit the longest uninterrupted ball ever-& the 2nd longest blast ever-in a MLB game where it was an HR over a fence that was 570′ or 56o’ away! Since you could not expect Mays to be playing near 450′, you gotta ask how many others could have caught an unexpected blast like that coming from the same starting point. Though Mays always said he had it all the way, & the spin & throw was the best part of the play.

  99. Raul Says:

    Meh, I guess, Mike.

    BTW, down 4.4 lbs since last week. I haven’t started lifting…just eating better and elliptical.

    If I do hit the weights, I’m thinking I might just do 2 days a week…maybe Monday/Thursday.

    Sounds like I’m making excuses already, lol.

  100. Bob Says:

    If you do start lifting, go for reps, not bulk

  101. Mike Felber Says:

    This latest Ozzie thing is objectionable all around.

    Leftists have often been in denial for decades about the evil that their side does. just like right wingers glossing over how abusive & autocratic their allies are, & the evil the US has done in supporting evil Gov’ts & US overthrows. All of this is monstrous, & also hypocrisy.

    But is it not worse that Ozzie now has LIED about what he said. I mean, even as the Most Naive Man on the Planet, I do not believe he accidentally said he loves Castro, yet MEANT to say he does not know how he has stayed in power so long!

    But how can you justify suspending him for a political opinion, however foolish? He was not advocating for something illegal. The Dodgers can repudiate his sentiments, & are free to say if his explanation is BS.

    But is it not in the same vein as the repressive Castro regime-though of course not so extreme-to censor & punish him for his thoughts & statements? Say it is insensitive, could hurt our fan base: but do not punish free speech!

    I heard a Latino gentleman address the free speech issue & somehow try to rationalize the punishment. But his argument had no substance to it. It is complete hypocrisy. Condemn the opinion & state whether you believe your Manager’s explanation of it being a mistake.

    But do not be the Thought Police out of fear of backlash.

  102. Raul Says:

    Regarding the Ozzie Guillen situation:

    I think it’s bogus. Ozzie should have the right to say whatever he pleases, without repercussions. To me, that’s what freedom of speech is.

    Yes, I’m fully aware that in the world we live in, THERE ARE consequences for what you say. But I don’t buy into it. Just because Ozzie is employed by the Miami Marlins, I don’t think his personal views (however offensive they may be to some) reflect the Marlins organization.

    It disgusts me….severely disgusts me…that people just accept that because you work for someone, that you’re bound to their interests.

    In more of a rant, I’ll share what I wrote on Facebook. And admittedly, this is more off-the-cuff…

    South Florida Cubans are fucking stupid. Compared to the regime of Batista, with the US mafia running all natural resources and the general population marginalized, Fidel Castro is a saint. Hell, compared to the United States, Castro is a saint. The only reason you dumbasses are angry is because it makes you feel self-important to be angry. Put on some white shoes and go have a 3pm dinner, and make racist comments about dark-skinned Latinos like every other worthless 80-year old Miami resident.

  103. Mike Felber Says:

    Good for you Raul! And twice a week is plenty! Bob, I wrote Raul a bunch of suggestions, he has said he does not want to go for bulk, but there is no reason it is better or worse to do so. It depends upon your goals, there are many ways to be healthy & lose weight. Intense workouts that facilitate bulk also increase resting metabolism for up to 2 days afterwards, so can help lose weight.

    The 1st week or 2 you will likely lose more Raul, partly due to it being water, which you should drink regularly. But to keep your calorie burn high & keep the weight off, ~ 1% of your body weight per week should be the max you lose.

    You can also do weights in a circuit training style, get aerobic & strength benefits. Though I do not do so, it is minimal rest between sets, rotate muscle groups so the muscles are fresh, & 20 or so minutes of this is good. When pressed for time, you get a twofer.

  104. Raul Says:

    Thanks Bob.

    Bulk is definitely not my goal.

  105. Cameron Says:

    Ozzie, protip. When you’re in a city full of Cuban refugees, don’t say anything REMOTELY praising of Castro. I don’t think it speaks anything on Ozzie… But when you’re in Miami, Fidel’s not a good name to bring up.

    Also, today’s free game is KC and Oakland. Go Royals.

  106. Mike Felber Says:

    I agree completely with everything in your Castro post Raul about personal & worker rights. Though not that the US is worse than Castro-domestically. And while there are many racist old white folks, that last remark was ironically stereotypical & a bit hateful.

  107. Chuck Says:

    The only reason people are upset at what Guillen said is their own realization that he’s right.

    Castro’s been sodomizing an entire country for 53 years, and if those ignorant asshats are OK with that, then they deserve what they have.

    And as far as Jeffrey Loria goes, you build a billion dollar stadium in the middle of a neighborhood that collectively couldn’t give a rat’s ass about your team don’t get pissed off when your LATINO manager rips the LATINO community.


  108. Raul Says:

    yeah, that last bit was hateful by me.

    I admit that much and it was probably unnecessary.

    But I read the history of Cuba. And I’ve read and seen what the United States has done as far as foreign policy and domestic policy.

    It’s not even close.
    The United States has committed FAR more evil acts than Cuba.

    I won’t ignore that historical fact just because I benefit by living here. Lack of education and American propaganda is what leads people to think Cuba is evil. And it’s that propaganda that deflects attention to the American Public the damage that the American Government bestows upon the rest of the world.

  109. Cameron Says:

    I think Ozzie may have actually set a new record in fastest time between a new job and a suspension. Not just baseball, all sports. This is, what, day three of his Miami contract?

  110. Cameron Says:


    That and they’re communists. Even though the Red Scare is over, we still hate us some commies.

  111. Bob Says:

    Raul, I have very little knowledge about Florida and Miami ( although somehow I became a fan of the Dolphins) But I have heard both Mike Lowell and Gloria Estavan ( A minority owner of the Dolphins) say shit about Castro.
    Given the fact they were born in Cuba, I was swayed. Although I am jealous that he played Fisher in chess. Will admit that.

  112. Chuck Says:

    Mike Lowell was not born in Cuba.

  113. Raul Says:

    I don’t think a political or financial ideology is any reason to hate a person.

    Though to be fair, what happened in Cuba and the Soviet Union wasn’t communism as much as it was State-ism. And what we have in the United States isn’t capitalism as much as it is a Socialism that’s geared towards the very wealthy.

    But let’s stick to baseball here, please.

  114. Bob Says:

    @112. Sorry, he was not. His parents were. Again sorry.

  115. Cameron Says:

    Fair enough.

    What do you guys think of Atlanta’s chances this year?

  116. Raul Says:

    Atlanta is going to find out that Michael Bourn is overrated

  117. Bob Says:

    @ 115. Ask me on Labor Day

  118. John Says:

    @113, I think the take-away from history is that “idealized communism” (which still sucks) will never actually be attained because there will be those who seek to benefit themselves and mess it up.

    As far as baseball goes, I truly wonder how sensible it is to continue having Guillen as manager. He might as well have gone to a synagogue and extolled Hitler’s virtues. He alienated the very community that his team’s attendance and financial future is dependent on…even though, contextually, what he said wasn’t that bad (I think it came out wrong in his second language).

  119. Cameron Says:

    It’s Miami, John. In about five minutes, everyone’s gonna do a line and forget about it.

  120. Raul Says:


    Capitalism hasn’t worked out any better. Especially when the entire concept of the money system is founded upon a medium that is literally created out of thin air.

    Frankly, it’s only a matter of time before this thing crashes and burns.

    Ozzie was hired to manage a baseball team. Whatever the stupid things he says, if he’s going to be fired, it should be based on his performance as a manager.

  121. Raul Says:

    lol @ Cam 119

  122. Cameron Says:

    I gotta admit though, the Marlins know the image they have now as a big-spending team where they are. All the players are dressing up in colorful suits and big colored sunglasses off the field. Looks like something out of Miami Vice.

    From what I heard, it was Mi… Excuse me, Giancarlo Stanton’s idea to play up the image.

  123. Chuck Says:

    “What do you guys think of Atlanta’s chances this year.”

    Slim and none.

  124. Raul Says:

    That reminds me…

    Gordon is still 0-the-season, Cam.

    If Ned Yost keeps batting him leadoff in front of Cain/Escobar, he should be fired before the NFL Draft.

  125. Raul Says:

    Today is John Madden’s birthday.

    Consider, for a moment, all of the people he’s out-lived.


  126. Bob Says:

    He got out of the stressful job, and into the broadcast booth. Smart decision.

  127. Chuck Says:

    I watched the Royals game on Sunday..Gordon hit three balls on the Pujols made this ridiculous diving play on, another was a liner that Kendrick had to go full out to get, and a deep fly to right center that if anyone else but Bourjos was there was a triple.

    Not worried about him at all.

  128. Cameron Says:

    I’m not worried either. Gordon may be oh-fer, but it’s on contact and not Ks now. He’s gonna balance out.

  129. Chuck Says:

    Did anyone notice the Mariner’s new DH was riding the pine last night against Darvish?

  130. Cameron Says:

    Given how Darvish was pitching last night, they’ve gotta be kicking themselves on that.

  131. Chuck Says:

    They probably sat him because they knew he couldn’t make contact with a boat paddle.

  132. Cameron Says:

    Probably. Still, hindsight’s 20/20 I guess.

  133. Chuck Says:

    I got ten bucks says Montero spends time in Tacoma.

  134. Raul Says:

    Probably because while Darvish was off, the Mariners figured that Montero wasn’t going to turn on any of his pitches.

    The Mariners took Ackley out of 2B and made him the DH, and put some guy named Munenori Kawasaki in a 2B.

    One should consider that for a moment.
    The Mariners apparently felt 2B Dustin Ackley was a better option against Darvish than their full-time DH Jesus Montero.

  135. Raul Says:

    The other day in Tampa, David Phelps came into a game in relief. Tonight, Freddy Garcia makes a start against the Baltimore Orioles.

    I’m telling you, Joe Girardi has some backwards way of thinking.

  136. John Says:

    @127, bingo. Trust the process and the results will come. No reason to freak-out over a microsplit.

    @120, by that logic, the Marlins shouldn’t fire Guillen if he kills someone either.

    He alienated a huge freaking chunk of his team’s fanbase. Keeping him around is bad business. And when you have a team that has drawn under 1000 fans to some games, you can’t afford to do that.

    Start a used car dealership in Harlem and call your customers the n-word. See how much business you generate.

  137. Cameron Says:

    You know, one thing people said to me about living close to Cleveland was that I could visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame since I’m a big music guy. …Personally, I despise the R&R HoF.

    And this year, they inducted Laura Nyro. This is supposed to be a Hall of FAME, right?

  138. Cameron Says:


    Again, it’s Miami. I’m surprised he hasn’t killed someone yet.

  139. Raul Says:

    Ozzie Guillen didn’t alienate anyone.

    Any time you have these supposed outrage groups, it’s maybe a few hundred people, tops.

    What, you think ALL of South Florida is Cubans?

    George Carlin had an FCC case go to the Supreme Court of the United States on an “inappropriate language” case because of 1 caller. One complaint on a program that was broadcast to millions in New York City.

    I don’t buy it for a second that even 1% of the Miami Marlins was so offended that they’d call for his suspension or ouster.

    Comparing what I said with homicide or a N-Word Car Dealership just shows the completely bogus lengths you go to on this site, to try and make a point. And it always fails.

    If you really think “Fidel Castro is great” compares with “Buy this car, nigga”, you’re out of your mind.

  140. John Says:

    Go ahead and praise Castro to a Cuban refugee. I fucking dare you.

  141. Raul Says:

    I’ve done it, my friend.

    I was at a bar in 2006 with my friend who was wearing a Che Guevara shirt and we were actually talking about Cuba when this drunk guy came up and attacked my friend. I shoved his ass to the ground. Before I could beat the crap out of him, the owner of the bar (whom we knew) grabbed him and threw him out.

    Having an opinion about Fidel Castro isn’t the same thing as calling someone a racial slur.

    And you damn well know it.

  142. Cameron Says:

    I don’t think it is either, Raul. I still won’t do it, though. You know, just from common sense and knowing most Cuban immigrants can whoop my ass.

  143. Raul Says:

    I don’t know who this Austin Jackson guy is, but he’s off to a great start.

    Maybe he got his strikeouts out of his system in the Spring.

  144. Raul Says:


    I agree that given the situation Ozzie Guillen is in, it wasn’t the wisest thing to say.

    What I’m trying to say is, I don’t think he should be suspended or fired over it because a man is entitled to his opinions, no matter how smart or stupid they may seem.

    The second someone holds a penalty over your head for expressing yourself, the right to free speech and expression is hindered. You begin to self-censor yourself. That’s a fundamental fact and it’s what annoys the hell out of me about this situation.

  145. Bob Says:

    And Rush Limbaugh lost sponsers when he called someone a slut. The government cannot and should not be able to punish you. But your employer should be able to for acts or statements that are unbecoming.
    And the threats of boycotts are a legit tactic, as we have known since the days of Rosa Parks.
    I will give you the last word.

  146. Raul Says:

    I don’t think Rush Limbaugh should be fired for the stupid things he says.

    People should just stop listening, because he’s an inciteful, hateful idiot.

    Ozzie Guillen might think Fidel Castro is great. I can tell you that on a certain level, there are things I myself admire about Castro. But whatever personal opinions Guillen has, if the Marlins are winning games, the fans will be there.

    Look, do you really think anyone who was offended by what Guillen said, suddenly feels better that he’ll be sitting out 5 games? Do you really think they would have stayed away from the team for the duration of Guillen’s time as manager, and avoided even watching the games on television until he was disciplined? Let’s suppose Guillen was a terrific manager with an impeccable winning record. Would firing him over his personal opinions really be in the best interests of the product on the field?

    The fact is, suspending Ozzie Guillen is a public relations stunt. It was an act of absolutely zero substance whatsoever.

    The troubling thing to me is that little by little the line keeps getting pushed as to what you’re allowed to express and what you aren’t. And it’s going in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

    Ozzie Guillen is an employee of the Miami Marlins. Supposing the premise that what he says reflects the values or opinions of the organization, why could you not say that the reverse is true? That the Miami Marlins’ values and opinions reflect Ozzie Guillen’s? So if Jeffrey Loria comes out and says something that contradicts the beliefs and values and “brand” of Ozzie Guillen, should Loria then be subject to discipline or compensation to Ozzie?

    Of course not. Because one man’s opinion is one man’s opinion.
    Employment and Ownership don’t change that, despite what the common person is led to believe.

  147. Chuck Says:

    “I don’t think Rush Limbaugh should be fired for the stupid things he says.”

    Rush Limbaugh gets paid seven figures a year specifically to say stupid things.

    Big difference.

  148. Chuck Says:

    “Start a used car dealership in Harlem and call your customers the n-word. See how much business you generate.”

    If it was owned by a black dude, the line would be around the corner.

  149. Chuck Says:

    “And this year, they inducted Laura Nyro. This is supposed to be a Hall of FAME, right?”

    Amen, I’m not nearly the music expert my wife is, and there’s people/groups in the Hall SHE never heard of.

    More like the Rock and Roll Hall of writeabigchecktothebuildingfundandyou’rein Fame.

  150. Chuck Says:

    Ozzie Guillen is Venezuelan.

    Venezuela’s long time President is Hector Chavez.

    Chavez and Castro are likethis.

    Chavez couldn’t allow Venezuela to become Communist because the rest of the governing states in South America would have wasted him on the spot, so he became a “sympathizer.”

    Exporting/importing from the US to Cuba is illegal.

    Exporting to Venezuela (for a cut) and then to the US is not.

    Castro “indirectly” did a lot for Venezuela.

    And Puerto Rico and the Dominican, etc.

    You may not like your neighbors, but you damn well better figure out how to get along with them, and Castro did.

    Asshole, yes.

    Martyr, yes.

    Dictator, yes.

    Stupid. No chance.

    Coming from a Latino, especially a non-Cuban latino, I can see Ozzie’s point.

    But when your audience is mostly Cuban, it wasn’t very smart.

  151. Raul Says:

    It saddens me that this motorcycle incident distracts people from the fact that Bobby Petrino simply isn’t a very good football coach.

  152. Raul Says:

    Did I hear right? Five wild pitches for Freddy Garcia?

  153. Mike Felber Says:

    I agree almost completely with you Raul. Castro has been very repressive domestically, & it is no Socialist paradise. But we have done far more damage oversees than he ever could in anti-democratic actions(& far more good too), & have massive flaws & hypocrisies.

    But ABSOLUTELY a man’s freedom to express his opinions should be inviolate. The team could disagree, to punish him is clearly anti-what a free nation should be about.

    Chuck, not sure what you meant. You agree but are against Castro-you know that Ozzie got in trouble for saying he loves Castro, right?

  154. Mike Felber Says:

    Ah, I see Chuck.

    Though if he meant that, OK, but he seemed to endorse the guy whole cloth. Either way, he should be allowed to do so. But his saying he made a mistake that was due to language also seems like he chickened out, lied about what he meant.

  155. Mike Felber Says:

    From a Story in the Sporting News:

    The 48-year-old Venezuelan told Time magazine he loves Castro and respects the retired Cuban leader for staying in power so long. In response, at least two local officials said Guillen should lose his job.

    At the news conference, Guillen said his comments were misinterpreted by the reporter, and he doesn’t love or admire the dictator.

    “I was saying I cannot believe somebody who hurt so many people over the years is still alive,” Guillen told the news conference.

    Read more:

    Is it at all plausible that he just miscommunicated?

    Hearing Dickey’s story as he is interviewed, it is a great one. Besides the abuse from childhood he finally faced & overcame, the near drowning incident seems to have allowed him to focus intensely pitch by pitch & salvages his career years ago.

  156. Raul Says:

    is David Freese for real?

  157. JohnBowen Says:

    “I’ve done it, my friend.

    I was at a bar in 2006 with my friend who was wearing a Che Guevara shirt and we were actually talking about Cuba when this drunk guy came up and attacked my friend. I shoved his ass to the ground. Before I could beat the crap out of him, the owner of the bar (whom we knew) grabbed him and threw him out.

    Having an opinion about Fidel Castro isn’t the same thing as calling someone a racial slur.

    And you damn well know it.”

    Ok, two things.

    It doesn’t matter whether “calling Castro great” and “using the n-word” are equivalent.

    What matters is the reaction on the part of Cuban-Americans who suffered under Castro’s reign.

    Your story PROVES my point. Your friend was chilling in a fairly generic Che Guevara shirt and HE WAS ASSAULTED. That’s the kind of emotions that those pinko commie shits bring out of Cuban-Americans because the wounds they’ve suffered are so great.

    Over 1/3 of the population of Miami is Cuban-American. Not a demographic I’d wanna piss off, especially when I’m running a team that struggles to draw fans as it is.

  158. Raul Says:

    wondering why Ross Detwiler was taken out of the game after 5 innings.
    He only allowed 2 hits and struck out 6 on just 71 pitches. 50 of them were strikes.

  159. JohnBowen Says:

    “Is it at all plausible that he just miscommunicated?”

    That’s possible, but as long as people believe he was praising Castro, that’s what’s gonna reflect in ticket sales.

    Of course, he’s probably going to use Giancarlo Stanton to bunt a lot; that’ll give Loria a better reason to terminate him.

    “But ABSOLUTELY a man’s freedom to express his opinions should be inviolate. The team could disagree, to punish him is clearly anti-what a free nation should be about.”

    No one’s saying that he should be arrested.

    From a purely business standpoint, a substantial number of potential clients are pissed off, and I’m not sure how much today’s presser is going to solve that.

  160. Raul Says:

    Oh, surprise surprise.
    David Phelps comes in to mop up Freddy Garcia’s crap job and does a good job.

    2.1 innings
    4 strikeouts

  161. Raul Says:

    “A substantial number of potential clients are pissed off”

    I’m glad to know that Ozzie’s 5-game suspension has now restored their faith in the organization, and they’ll resume to lining up for Marlins season tickets.

  162. Chuck Says:

    Through seven innings..Texas over Seattle, 1-0/

    108 pitches and seven whiffs for Neftali Feliz.

    Justin Smoak and Jesus Montero have two hits each, the rest of the lineup is eating a donut.


    Oh, by the way.

    Daniel Bard sucks ass.

  163. John Says:

    Never said Loria’s solution was the smartest one.

  164. Raul Says:

    Not watching the Boston game but I did notice the box score regarding Bard.

  165. John Says:

    By the way, w.r.t Kinsler (from earlier)

    The Jekyl/Hyde thing is certainly a concern, as is his injury history. But, he provides great speed and power, while playing excellent defense at a premium position. These things add up; I don’t have a major quip with this deal.

  166. Chuck Says:

    Never guess who was the starting pitcher for Scranton tonite?

    Ramon Ortiz.

    No shit, THAT Ramon Ortiz.

    Ramon “Older than Dirt” Ortiz.

    I didn’t even know the Yankees had signed him, much less thought he would have value anywhere.

  167. John Says: ????

    Wow, I vaguely remember him from the ‘02 World Series with Anaheim. I had no idea he had stuck around.

    He give up *40* HR in 2002, but somehow had a 3.77 ERA, which was pretty damn good for ‘02.

  168. Chuck Says:

    Watching the Sacramento/Tucson game on MiLB.TV.

    405 to center and another 50 to clear the batters eye.

    Matt Clark just cleared the eye by 20 feet.


  169. Raul Says:

    Who the hell is Matt Clark?

  170. Raul Says:

    4-4 bottom of the 9th

    runner on 1st and zero outs

    why is cory wade in the game instead of mariano rivera?

  171. Chuck Says:

    Saw him in ST.

    Really big guy, big bat, a little Adam Dunn-ish around first, but not a waste. With Alonso in SD now probably trade bait, but he can help someone somewhere.

    “Rays DH Luke Scott had a cortisone shot today on his injured left hamstring, and is day to day.”


    Injured hamstring.

    What he do, stand up to get a bag of seeds?

    Ducked out of the way of a foul ball in the dugout?

    Reach back on the buffet table for an extra roll?

  172. Raul Says:

    LOL @ that about Luke Scott

  173. John Says:

    lol @ 171.

  174. Raul Says:

    It’s the 12th inning and Joe Girardi has exhausted his bench.

    1. This is why carrying all those relievers is fucking stupid
    2. Joe Girardi has shown he sucks at managing the bench less than week into the season.

  175. Raul Says:

    Cano leads off with a double.

    A-Rod fists a ball to the right side and grounds out weakly.

    That’s called smart baseball, even if the stats take a shot.

    1 out, Cano on 3rd.
    4-4 score.

  176. Raul Says:

    Fantastic. Mark Teixeira hits a high-bouncing grounder to 2B.
    Runner doesn’t score.


  177. Raul Says:

    Way to come through, Ibanez.

  178. John Says:

    @174, so you’re saying it would be better for the Yankees to…have position players on the mound?

    Who cares if they can’t use a 6th man off the bench. It’s the AL for shit’s sake.

  179. Raul Says:

    There is no need to ever have a position player on the mound, because you shouldn’t be a fucking retard and have a guy pitch to 1 batter these days TO BEGIN WITH…which is what every manager does nowadays because of the overrated platoon advantage nonsense.

  180. Raul Says:

    Wow. Cespedes took what I think was the worst route towards a baseball I’ve ever seen on a hit by Moustakas.

  181. Raul Says:

    Gordon shoots a hard grounder that Jemile Weeks gets to.

    Just my luck. Son of a…

  182. Mike Felber Says:

    Pinko Commie labels/imperial running dogs for that matter have always been rank name calling John. It breeds the kind of emotion that the bar scene described.

    I did not think Ozzie could have said that & meant something entirely different. It is not like he mixed up like & do not like, the text was wildly disparate from what he claimed to mean.

    No legal action against Ozzie? Yah, but my point is you cannot ethically suspend a man for expressing his political opinion. Condemn the idea, even weigh in if you believe he is lying about being misquoted. But a formal suspension & confiscating that income is worse than unprofessional, it is in the general direction of what Castro (& lots of what the US has supported oversees) does, punish speech. And often worse.

    Too bad we do not have the awareness of true human rights & Civil Liberties so that an action like this is reviled as anti-American.

  183. John Says:

    1) How often do 12 inning games happen? You want to plan your team around what will serve you better in a 162 game season, not what might win you obscure games that will happen like twice.

    “A-Rod fists a ball to the right side and grounds out weakly.
    That’s called smart baseball, even if the stats take a shot.”

    In the 12 inning, sure, cuz you just need 1-run (though the Yankees were the away team).

    On average, a runner on third with 1 out has about a 67% chance of scoring, compared with a runner on 2nd with 0 outs (63%).

  184. John Says:

    “Pinko Commie labels/imperial running dogs for that matter have always been rank name calling John. It breeds the kind of emotion that the bar scene described.”

    So does skull-fucking your people to the point where they’re trying to find floating doors just to get over to Miami to escape you.

  185. John Says:

    “No legal action against Ozzie? Yah, but my point is you cannot ethically suspend a man for expressing his political opinion.”

    Think I’d have a job if I publicly expressed a negative political opinion on the President?

    Think again.

    Loria has to do what’s right for the franchise. Period. He doesn’t have a bill of rights to abide by.

  186. Cameron Says:

    I just got a crazy thought in my head. Given this IS the Marlins we’re talking about, you think this might all be a publicity stunt?

  187. Chuck Says:

    LOL @ Cameron.

  188. Raul Says:


    You really don’t understand baseball if you think it’s best for baseball teams to carry 7 relievers.

  189. Bob Says:

    Yeah. You need 8, like Boston.

  190. Cameron Says:

    10 if you count the guys in the rotation.

  191. Bob Says:

    I will give you Bard. Doubrant could be a legit starter.

  192. Raul Says:

    David Wright broke a finger sliding to 1st base.

    This is getting comical in NY.

  193. Chuck Says:

    “David Wright broke a finger sliding to 1st base.”

    I texted Mike Silva last night and asked if Wright would be out for the season.

  194. Raul Says:


  195. Mike Felber Says:

    John, you have a formal obligation as a military man & employed by the Government to follow certain delimited restrictions in your free expression. So it is a poor comparison. This does not & should not exists for a private employee. It is both unnecessary to punish someone for what they say instead rather than condemn the speech if you so choose, & unethical/should be considered unamerican.

    The US has done some evil things to our own folks & oversees. Comic book slurs against a form of Gov’t are still childish & destructive.

  196. brautigan Says:

    Sorry for not being around guys, but I’ve been in the woods for the past week and finally saw a box score for the first time this year yesterday.

    Regarding the Guillen flap: Much ado about nothing.

    Those ass hats in Miami or nothing more than ass hats. Did they forget the Batista regime, and how they played to the mafia in the 50’s? How much incompetence and corruption Batista placed on the Cuban people! My goodness, did we forget that? (apparently the ass hats in Miami have) Over 20,000 Cubans were killed by Batista in the 50’s alone. And guess who put Batista in control? If you guessed USA, you guessed right.

    Look, Castro is not a good guy. Not at all. But the Cubans strongly endorsed him in 1960, and he put a lock on his power.

    IF I am looking at what Guillen said, then Guillen is correct in one aspect. John F. Kennedy has been dead for 48.5 years, and Castro is still alive.

  197. brautigan Says:

    *Should read “those ass hats in Miami are nothing more than ass hats”.

    I forgot how to use a keyboard in one week.

  198. Cameron Says:

    Five bucks if Castro wasn’t a communist, none of us would know who the hell he is.

  199. Raul Says:

    At least Brautigan has a sense of history.

    Anyway, back to baseball…

    Strasburg goes against Johan today.

  200. brautigan Says:

    And no Raul, I was not at the Bay of Pigs invasion. I am neither Zelig or Forrest Gump.


  201. Cameron Says:

    Johan Santana and Stephen Strasburg. …Two guys this injury prone, carry the two…

    I’m pretty sure a bus is gonna crash into the bullpen today. This is like the matter and antimatter of injury risks.

  202. Chuck Says:

    Strasburg just threw his 100th pitch of the game.

    First time he’s hit that total as a pro.

    Geez, and he got hurt?

  203. Raul Says:

    Quite satisfying to see that Sergio Santos didn’t completely blow Ricky Romero’s performance today.

  204. Raul Says:

    There are only 5 players with 0 hits on the season thusfar:

    1. Alex Gordon (18 ABs)
    2. James Loney (14 ABs)
    3. Jamey Carroll (13 ABs)
    4. Nick Hundley (13 ABs)
    5. Clint Barmes (12 ABs)

    Bob Saget!

  205. Chuck Says:

    Four of the five are not unexpected, because they suck.

  206. Chuck Says:

    Dellin Betances:

    3 1/3 IP
    7 H

  207. Chuck Says:

    This whole Matt Bush thing just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

  208. Raul Says:

    I’ve decided that Dellin Betances’ problem is he can’t repeat his delivery.
    At all.

    One pitch, he’s CC Sabathia.
    The next, he’s CU Later.

    Christ. How embarrassing is it that you can’t even put together a Mark Hendrickson-esque effort?

  209. Raul Says:

    And Gordon is on the board with an RBI Single!

  210. Cameron Says:

    So Matt Bush was involved in four car crashes, two of which were hit and runs… All in the same day? While on the same buzz? With the cops not noticing until the FOURTH crash?

    I know the cops in Florida suck, but fucking hell, FOUR drunk driving incidents by one guy in the same night. Also, what the hell was he driving that could survive what must have been the world’s most epic bender?

  211. Bob Says:

    His teammates SUV.

  212. Cameron Says:

    His teammate’s… This story is wrapped in so many layers of wrong I don’t know where to start.

  213. brautigan Says:

    Yeah, and I see where the guy is suing Brandon Guyer for $5 million.

    Man, I really, really dislike lawyers.

  214. Cameron Says:

    So many layers…

  215. John Says:

    Mike: “This does not & should not exists for a private employee”

    Have you ever had a job?

    “You really don’t understand baseball if you think it’s best for baseball teams to carry 7 relievers.”

    And, why do they need some 5th outfielder to get 85 at-bats?

    I mean, seriously, what good does that do?

    You’re complaining that the Yankees – an AL team, mind you, had a depleted bench.

    Yeah, that’ll happen in extra innings.

    You wanna add a 5th outfielder? Great. Now you have fewer pitchers and you’re MORE FUCKED in extra innings because you have fewer relievers. You can extend your relievers longer, and then they’re unavailable for subsequent games.

    Sounds like you really understand baseball there, hotshot.

  216. Cameron Says:

    “And, why do they need some 5th outfielder to get 85 at-bats?

    I mean, seriously, what good does that do?”

    No, but defensive subs and pinch running options are very nice to have.

  217. Bob Says:

    The Sox had 5 ofer’s when they were good.

    1. Manny
    2. Damon
    3. Nixon
    4. Kapler
    5. Dave Roberts

  218. John Says:

    @216, so is having fresh arms out of the pen.

  219. Cameron Says:

    You don’t need 8. I think the sweet spot is 7 given how fragile pitchers are now.

  220. Bob Says:

    @219. Tell that to Bobby Valentine.

  221. John Says:

    7’s about right.

    So, that’s 4 bench position players in the AL, 5 in the NL. That’s plenty.

    Ideally you should be able to get away with having 4 starters, 1 swingman, and 6 relievers, but teams just don’t wanna do that (nor do players, really).

  222. Cameron Says:

    Actually John, I think I had a good chart for how I think ball clubs should work within the context of how players are these days.

    -8 Position Players
    -1 RH Pinch Hitter (Most Likely a CI/CO)*
    -1 LH Pinch Hitter (Most likely a CI/CO)*
    -1 IF Defensive Sub (Most likely a MI, but versatility is key)
    -1 OF Defensive Sub (Chances are, this is also your pinch runner)

    -5 Starters
    -2 Swingmen/Long Relievers (Insurance, my friend. Guys get hurt.)
    -2 Middle Relievers (Good for about 3-5 innings)
    -1 RH Setup
    -1 LH Setup
    -1 Closer

    * – In the AL, use the opposite handed-hitter of your DH as the PH, platooning with the DH.

  223. Chuck Says:

    Twelve pitchers??????

    Comment fail.

    The only time you should EVER need more than ten is if you have a long stretch without a day off, or maybe a couple of doubleheaders or makeup games.

    A guy like Girardi who is totally fucking brain dead when it comes to managing a pitching staff could carry eleven, but that’s born out of stupidity and not necessity.

  224. Mike Felber Says:

    How about holding jobs for longer than you have been alive John?

    Most times folks cannot suspend you for saying you love a political leader. Just because some screwed up situations allow it, or have not legislated against a particular outrage to human dignity & freedome does not make it right.

    And I am no Castor supporter. i do not care what world leader a guy says he loves, you do not take away his freedom to say it & his Professional options & money for it.

  225. Raul Says:

    Exactly, Mike.

  226. Raul Says:

    I can’t root for Philly in anything, but I really want the Flyers to beat the shit out of the Penguins.

  227. Raul Says:

    And Nick Swisher just hit a bomb.

  228. Raul Says:

    The Rockies have scored 16 runs thusfar, and haven’t hit a single home run.

  229. Bob Says:

    Mike and Raul, should I be allowed to ask people who has put pubic hair on my coke can ala Clarence Thomas, if you believe Anita Hill.

    Can I during my water coller discussions with females ask them a math question, such as what is 6.9? And then gleefully tell them the answerr is Sex interupted by a period.

    Or a history question, like name 2 brave men who have been shot in a theatre. Lincoln and the guy who sat in front of Pee Wee Herman.

  230. Bob Says:

    Brautigan, any luck hunting? And were you going for deer, pheasant, quail ( or Quayle) or something else.

  231. Chuck Says:


    Jesus Christ, Bob.

  232. Bob Says:

    Just asking questions.

  233. Bob Says:

    Could care less if I agree or disagree with them.

  234. brautigan Says:

    Nah Bob, was just hanging out at a friends house in the woods (a remote place in Eastern Oregon). I usually hunt about 50 to 75 miles west from this area. Just a beautiful place, and still had snow on the nearby mountain. Pretty cool. I did lots of hiking and playing darts and a card game called “wizard”. Good food, good times.

  235. Bob Says:

    I remember reading and seeing how beautiful Oregon is back when I subscribed to Field&Stream magazine. Although that was over 12 years ago.

  236. Chuck Says:

    Deliverance II

  237. Chuck Says:

    Invite Rob Neyer..he can be your “target”

  238. Raul Says:

    I don’t even know what you’re talking about, Bob.
    But do as you wish. Doesn’t affect nor bother me one bit.

  239. Chuck Says:

    “I don’t even know what you’re talking about, Bob.”

    Red Sox are 1-5.

  240. Bob Says:

    I am talking about how companies have sexual harassment seminars which inform you that crude jokes are grounds for being fired.
    Are they legal? Should they be? Is my inability to say a tasteless joke an infrigement on my right to free speech? Or do companies have a right to demand certain behavior from you and me in exchange for a paycheck?
    And yes, the Sox are 1-5.

  241. Raul Says:

    Well, the Sox failed to get Jon Lester a win in two games where he pitched rather well.

    With regards as to whether a company is right to demand certain conduct from you: yes and no.

    If you think women belong in the kitchen, ok. Doesn’t mean diddly to me, personally. If a coworker shows up to a griddle and percolator at her desk because you put it there, then yeah, the company probably deserves to discipline you.

    With regards to sexual harassment, I would only start by saying the line that separates Harassment from Flirtation is so fuzzy, I wouldn’t even know where to begin.

  242. Chuck Says:

    I am talking about how companies have sexual harassment seminars which inform you that crude jokes are grounds for being fired.”

    “Are they legal?”


    “Should they be?”


    “Is my inability to say a tasteless joke an infrigement on my right to free speech?”


    “Or do companies have a right to demand certain behavior from you and me in exchange for a paycheck?”


  243. Cameron Says:

    Ah, tasteless jokes. Classics like, what has more brains than Kurt Cobain? The wall behind him.

  244. brautigan Says:

    You mean like:

    The Buffalo Sabres drafted Indira Gandhi after hearing she stopped 30 shots in 7 seconds.

  245. brautigan Says:

    Chuck, you need inbreding for Deliverance II. Oregon hillbillies have their master degrees.

  246. Raul Says:

    Maybe that’s offensive @ Braut #244

    But it’s funny, too.

  247. Chuck Says:

    “Oregon hillbillies have their master degrees.”

    But can they spell “inbreeding”?

  248. Cameron Says:

    You know, Chuck and I don’t agree on a lot, but I was on and read this and could do nothing but shake my head in disappointment at what basketball’s come to.

  249. Chuck Says:

    Following up on Dellin Betances’ great outing yesterday, Manny Banuelos failed to get past the second inning today, allowing three hits and six walks in 2+

  250. Cameron Says:

    So a typical Wednesday in Scranton?

  251. Raul Says:

    Come on, Pujols.

    That contract can’t be THAT much of a burden, can it?

  252. Cameron Says:

    Ask A-Rod what big contracts pressure you to do. …Besides be a douche.

  253. Raul Says:


    I know Pujols will come around. I’m just being silly.
    A-Rod, perhaps because of the juice, really did what you expected when you give a guy that much money. Nobody can live up to a contract that large, but I’d argue Alex did just about everything he could. Yeah, he gets criticism for his playoff struggles but over the course of his career, he’s actually done quite well.

    Who’s watching the Brewers game? All I have is the box score and Greinke got rocked for 6 runs. I’m wondering if he was off, or maybe was getting squeezed by the umpire.

  254. Bob Says:

    Braut post 244 was funny.

  255. Bob Says:

    Johnny Damon = Cleveland Indian.

  256. John Says:

    Literally zero teams are doing what Chuck is suggesting in comment 223.

    Because most of them want to, you know, win ballgames.

  257. John Says:


    Smart of Damon to go to a team with no playoff chances, but Hafner’s pretty embedded at DH.

    Until about April 16.

  258. John Says:

    @253, just got home. Ick. That’s no good. Maybe Greinke wants to re-open contract discussions?

    @252, since becoming a 25+million dollar per year player, ARod has won 3 MVP’s and averaged .298/.392/.570 for a 148 OPS+, and an average of 40 HR and 118 RBI per year.

    Both times, it was stupid of his teams to sign him to those deals because of the inherent limitations that one game can actually provide (Rangers) and the sheer stupidity of bidding against yourself so a guy can be paid by you until he’s 42 (Yankees).

    But jeez, if that’s not living up to a contract, I’m not sure what is.

  259. Cameron Says:


    Nah, ten pitchers can easily win ballgames. It was called baseball from about 1960-1980. Only reason I think 12 is good is so those two swingmen I mentioned are ready to help at the major league level and their spot’s getting replaced with a position callup if they go down.

    Ideally, you get about five guys in your bullpen you can call at any time to give you 100 IP a season and can go for 3 innings or more if you need. Goose Gossage is probably the best example. Sadly, pitchers tire easy now and you need more to get the same amount of work because people want to be Tony La Russa and carry three lefties at the expense of getting a good bat off the bench or a glove in the bottom third of the game when you need it.

    I think 7’s the sweet spot in practice, not theory.

  260. Cameron Says:

    Hey John, I did’t realize this. But Brett Favre leaving the Packers didn’t give Green Bay a franchise player. He gave them two. His spot went to Aaron Rodgers and the draft pick New York gave to the Packers was packaged with two more picks to draft at #26 for Clay Matthews.

    …Why do you guys hate Favre again? He basically handed you a Superbowl. =P

  261. Raul Says:

    The 2011 Yankees, and I would say it extends to just about every MLB team today, had nearly ever single pitcher in their bullpen pitch less than 1 inning per appearance.

    Compare that with the 1978 Yankees.

    Gossage: 63 games, 134 innings
    Lyle: 59 games, 111 innings
    Clay: 28 games, 75 innings (although he had 6 starts for 25 IP)
    Eastwick: 8 games, 24 innings
    Kammeyer: 7 games, 21 innings

    I’m not saying Mariano Rivera needs to go 134 innings.

    What I AM SAYING is that Rivera shouldn’t be going 60 innings while Boone Logan and Rafael Soriano combine for 80.

    *****On Tuesday night, in a game that ultimately went 12 innings, Joe Girardi ran out of bench players. In the bottom of the 9th inning, in a 4-4 game in Baltimore, he relieved David Robertson (arguably his best reliever who’d pitched just 1 inning) and brought Boone Logan in the game. Logan threw 2 pitches, gave up a single to Nolan Reimold and was promptly removed from the game for Cory Wade.

    He got 2 goddamn pitches out of Boone Logan.

    For the love of bacon, please tell me you see what the f*ck is wrong with this picture.

  262. John Says:

    @260 I did realize that, and Brett can still suck it.

    @259, wouldn’t work today. Too many teams, good relievers get spread around more.

    Relievers are relievers because they lack the endurance to last long, and/or only have stuff that can work once.

    You can give your Octavio Dotel’s of the world 100 IP if you want, but they’ll all have 5.00 ERA’s.

    But somehow, it’s more key that Gabe Gross be there in case of a super common 3-way collision in CF.

  263. Cameron Says:

    I know modern relievers can’t go 100 IP John. Why do you think I think the 12 man bullpen works better than the 10 man in practice. It ain’t the machine that’s bad, it’s the parts. Guys can’t pitch as long as they used to. Kills me to say it.

  264. Chuck Says:

    There are 30 teams.

    If each team cut two guys off their staff, that’s 60 guys.

    Sixty guys who have no business collecting major league service time.

    Mopping up in fucking Durham is where they are SUPPOSED to be.

  265. Raul Says:

    You can’t throw out that nonsense excuse that relievers don’t have endurance to pitch 80-100 innings when they did exactly that for decades.

    You just cannot say that.

  266. John Says:

    The guys who used to go 100+ still do.

    They’re called 4/5 starters.

  267. Cameron Says:

    Did it for decades, and haven’t been able to for 20 years now, Raul. Face it, they suck now.

  268. Raul Says:


    You can’t set up the premise that relievers can’t pitch 100 innings because they don’t. That has no basis.

    I’m not advocating the 300-inning season.
    But it really would not take a ton of work, and you would not destroy a bunch of careers by developing your pitchers to throw more. It’s a fallacy to declare otherwise.

    The only reason you see all these relievers and specialists is because it has become strategic. It has nothing to do with ability.

    The problem is that the Tony LaRussa bullpen has become the norm, and because of it, this false cloud about pitching durability is now taken as truth.

  269. brautigan Says:

    Loogies, that is Ed Vande berg’s contribution to major league history. And why teams carry so many relievers, because of “specialty” players like Vandy. (His rookie season was the first I could recall where a pitcher had less innings than games pitched). I mean, Trever Miller pitched in 39 games for the Cardinals last year and recorded 15 innings. And you want to use a roster spot for that?

    Jack Taylor pitched 1,727 consecutive innings before being relieved.

    Mike Marshall pitched 208 innings in relief in 1974.

    “Too many teams, good relievers get spread around more”. I know bullshit when I see it.

  270. John Says:

    “Jack Taylor pitched 1,727 consecutive innings before being relieved.”

    Yeah, I’m sure he was throwing straight gas, too, as was the custom in 1904.

    “The only reason you see all these relievers and specialists is because it has become strategic. It has nothing to do with ability.”

    God forbid someone use strategy in baseball instead of just winging it.

  271. John Says:

    “I know bullshit when I see it.”

    In 1976, there were 24 teams.

    So, if you have about the same number of “good” relievers, you now have 6 extra teams to spread them out over.

    Not complicated.

  272. Raul Says:

    “God forbid someone use strategy in baseball instead of just winging it”

    You’re such a douchebag.

    The point is, it’s bad strategy and even worse management of roster and finances.

  273. Raul Says:

    Someone might want to get on the phone with the San Francisco Giants because they don’t care about Brandon Belt.

    It’s just not going to end well for him there. He needs to be moved before he ends up another Dallas McPherson/Brandon Wood.

  274. John Says:

    “The point is, it’s bad strategy and even worse management of roster and finances.”

    Again, this is because you think teams really need Gabe Kaplers in case of a surprise rash of injuries.

  275. Raul Says:

    Who said anything about Gabe Kaplers?

    Why don’t you address the fact that using Boone Logan for 2 pitches is probably the dumbest f*cking thing a manager could do?

    But yeah, an extra player who can play defense and hit with average ability is more valuable than a LOOGY. Maybe if the Brewers had a guy or two like that, they might’ve beaten the Cardinals.

  276. John Says:

    ” an extra player who can play defense and hit with average ability is more valuable than a LOOGY.”

    You would go in with 5 bullpen pitchers, an extra position player that you use for 65 plate appearances, and you would lose 120 games.

    “Maybe if the Brewers had a guy or two like that, they might’ve beaten the Cardinals.”

    They did. His name is Mark Kotsay.

  277. Raul Says:

    “an extra position lpayer that you use for 65 plate appearances, and you would lose 120 games”


  278. Raul Says:

    NYR tonight!

  279. John Says:

    By WAR, your top last-bench-guy types:

    (Games between 75 and 110, PA < 200)

    Brian Boqusevic: 1.5
    Tony Campana: 1.3
    Brooks Conrad: 0.6
    Scott Hairston: 0.2
    Brian Bixler: 0.0

    Your top LOOGY types (lefties with more games than IP):

    Scott Downs: 2.2
    Glen Perkins: 2.0
    Darren Oliver: 1.5
    Antonio Bastardo: 1.4
    Tony Sipp: 1.3

    20-28 LOOGY's (depending on how you want to count them amassed 0.5 WAR or more, compared to THREE position players.

  280. Raul Says:

    Well, WAR is a stupid statistic.

    And it says an awful lot about how much you think a quality bench player is worth, that you arbitrarily assign 75-110 plate appearances.

    The comparison you set up above is such bullshit, it’s not even worth dissecting.

  281. Chuck Says:

    I’ve always believed the key to any postseason contender is either a good bullpen or bench. You don’t need both, but you ain’t winnin’ squat without at least one.

    The Rob Neyer’s of the world can talk all they want about the Kevin Towers/Kirk Gibson theory of building a pitching staff “backwards”, from the closer to the starters, but the truth is that was done by necessity and not design.

    And while it certainly worked out, the reason the DBacks won 94 games and the NL West is because they got 444 innings out of two guys who entered the season with 384 career IP…combined.

    Let’s say your team plays exactly nine innings for a full 162 game season, that comes to 1458 for the year.

    Your five starters average six inning per start, that’s 952.

    You’re telling me you need six or seven relievers for 506 innings?

    Less, when you consider your closer probably gets 15% of that total.

    Six guys, 440 innings.

    There’s no strategy in that.

  282. John Says:

    “And it says an awful lot about how much you think a quality bench player is worth, that you arbitrarily assign 75-110 plate appearances.”

    Are you seriously not understanding this?


    Take the current Yankees.

    You cut Clay Rapada to make room for 1 position player.

    You think you’re going to fill that spot with a high quality player?!

    You’re going to fill that spot with someone LESS good than Eduardo Nunez, Eric Chavez, or Andruw Jones. If that player was better than Eduardo Nunez, Eric Chavez, or Andruw Jones, he would be on the team already, instead of Eduardo Nunez, Eric Chavez, or Andruw Jones.

    How many plate appearances are you going to give to a player less good than Eduardo Nunez, Eric Chavez or Andruw Jones?

    Are you seriously giving him more than 200?

    Of course not. Unless you want to lose baseball games.

  283. John Says:

    “Six guys, 440 innings.

    There’s no strategy in that.”

    That’s about 70 IP per reliever, a mark passed by 30 relievers last year. 1 per team. 8 of those men had 20 or more saves, so really, there were only 22 relievers in the game who did what you think isn’t enough innings for an entire relief core to average.

    Sounds like a stretch to me, just to squeeze more John McDonald’s on your bench.

  284. Chuck Says:

    “You cut Clay Rapada to make room for 1 position player.

    You think you’re going to fill that spot with a high quality player?!”

    Are you saying you believe Clay Rapada is a high quality player?

  285. John Says:

    Of course, you could probably get rid of 6 with a swing-man, no problem, thus carrying 11 pitchers.

    Have your top 4 starters make around 3-4 extra starts a year each instead of giving those starts to some collection of schmos who’ll put up 5.50 ERA’s. Keep your main starters on a normal, every-fifth-day rotation so they’re never rusty.

    It seems like common sense, but I have the feeling that agents recommend that their clients don’t agree to a swingman position. Harder than being a middle reliever, without the chance to truly excel that a starter has.

  286. John Says:

    “Are you saying you believe Clay Rapada is a high quality player?”

    Absolutely not.

    Raul’s saying that the problem with the Clay Rapada’s is that they prevent a team from putting another position player on the bench.

    All I’m saying is that you’re really not missing much, since the theoretical player who’d replace Clay Rapada would really suck and pretty much never play.

  287. Raul Says:

    No you fucking idiot.

    What I’m saying is, Clay Rapada needs to pitch 100 quality innings or you need to replace him with a quality position player.

    I never said a quality position player gets 75 PAs a year, dumb ass.

    And if Clay Rapada, or Mariano Rivera can give you 100 qualify relief innings, there’s no need for Boone Logan or Cory Wade to even be on your roster.

    Considering you’re a National League guy, it’s fucking staggering that you fail to understand the value of a roster spot.

  288. Chuck Says:

    You have a 25 man roster.

    Say you do decide to carry a 12 man staff, that leaves 13 position players.

    So, even.

    Everyday, you have 8 position players in the starting lineup, leaving five bench guys.

    Everyday, you have one starting pitcher, but four others who are unavailable.

    That’s seven pitchers.

    I can’t see how Clay Rapada would be more valuable than say, Logan Schaefer.

    What makes the bullpen in general more valuable on a game by game basis is pitching is an unknown.

    The only way Eduardo Nunez is going to play is if ARod or Jeter gets hurt and he has to come in last minute.

    He knows when he comes to the ballpark everyday there’s a real good chance he’s not playing.

    A reliever knows everyday when he goes to the park he could play..starter has a bad day, rain delay, double switch, etc, etc.

    That said, I think the bullpen should be like they used to be, versatile.

    Having a guy with 60 appearances and 40 innings is the definition of retarded.

    You could activate the batboy and he’d be more valuable.

  289. Chuck Says:

    From my man Jayson Stark:

    For those who think Bryce Harper’s going to win ROY and go to the Hall of Fame in the same season.

    Harper hit 24 doubles in the minors last year as a teenager.

    In the past fifty years, the number of teenagers to hit that many in a major league season?

    One. Robin Yount in 1975 (in his THIRD ML season, by the way)

    Harper stole 26 bases last year.

    The last teenager with 20+ stolen bases in a major league season?


    Ty Cobb in 1906 stole 28.

    Harper had a .501 SLG last year.

    The number of teenagers to have a SLG over .500 in a season with 250 or more PA’s?


    Tony Conigliaro in 1964 and Mel Ott in 1938.

    Cue Steven Tyler, “Dream on, dream on, dream on….”

  290. Chuck Says:

    “And if Clay Rapada, or Mariano Rivera can give you 100 qualify relief innings, there’s no need for Boone Logan or Cory Wade to even be on your roster.”


    There’s a reason why relievers pitch fifty fucking innings a season.

    Because they’re not good enough to pitch 100.

    And that includes Mariano Rivera.

  291. John Says:

    “What I’m saying is, Clay Rapada needs to pitch 100 quality innings or you need to replace him with a quality position player.”



    Are you sitting there thinking, man, if we could just get rid of Clay Rapada and use our relievers for 100+ IP each and magically, those extra IP will be just as good as the others, then we could pick up a fantastic player?

    Newsflash, dumbass: The player you sign will be WORSE than bench players you already have. He won’t be a “quality player” in any sense of the word. And he would basically never play ball.

    I can’t make this any more clear to you. Seriously. This is NOT complicated.

  292. John Says:

    “There’s a reason why relievers pitch fifty fucking innings a season.
    Because they’re not good enough to pitch 100.”

    …and why you can’t just get by on five of them.

    Which is my entire point.

  293. Raul Says:

    “You’re not going to replace him with a quality position player”

    You mean YOU won’t. Because you wouldn’t have any fucking clue what a good baseball player was if the Hardball Times didn’t tell you.

  294. Chuck Says:

    John, if you’re associating “value” with “playing time”, then you’re wrong.

  295. brautigan Says:

    John, the players you identified as “LOOGY” types really don’t fit the bill.
    Scott Downs: 43% vs. LHB
    Glen Perkins: 40%
    Darren Oliver: 44%
    Antonio Bastardo: 35%
    Tony Sipp: 43%

    A more accurate sample would be:

    Randy Choate: 79% vs. LHB
    Boone Logan: 63%
    Joe Paterson: 61%
    Greg Sherrill: 59%
    Jake McGee: 55%
    Franklin Morales: 50%
    Even Rafael Perez out “LOOGY”d Tony Sipp on his own team with 51%

    “Try it again, next time with “feeling”.” (courtesy of “Kentucky Fried Movie”)

  296. John Says:

    “I can’t see how Clay Rapada would be more valuable than say, Logan Schaefer.”

    Because Logan Schafer isn’t going to see time.

    Even a crap pitcher like Rapada can eat up garbage time, thereby saving other arms in the bullpen.

    How many PA’s do you think your 5th guy off the bench (not counting the DH) is really going to see?

    And how much do you think that player (who clearly isn’t very good, since he’s your 5th guy off the bench) is going to contribute in that very limited amount of time?

  297. brautigan Says:

    Check out the 1967 Phillies. They went with 8 pitchers most of the time, and truly were 9 deep.

    Or the 1977 Dodgers, who stuck with a 5 man rotation all season long. They were not deep either.

  298. Chuck Says:

    “…and why you can’t just get by on five of them.”

    In a sense, you’re right.

    Because the quality of pitching today sucks.

    Fifty years ago, relief pitchers COULD pitch 100 innings. (Check out Dick Radatz with the 1964 Red of the great pitching seasons ever).

    It may be a necessity nowadays to carry a couple of extra pitchers because of the talent level, but within the structure of the game, more than ten aren’t necessary.

  299. John Says:

    Raul, for the love of shit.

    Pay attention.

    If a player was a “quality player” WHY WOULD HE BE YOUR FIFTH MAN OFF THE BENCH TO BEGIN WITH?

    This player is worse than Eduardo Nunez and John McDonald. So he isn’t good at baseball. And he isn’t going to play very much, get many plate appearances, or do very much of anything whatsoever for your team.

    And you’re frothing at the mouth because they Yankees don’t cut a reliever to make room for a guy, who would be riding the pine 99.9997% of the time.

    Good use of a roster spot, big guy.

  300. brautigan Says:

    And how much do you think that player (who clearly isn’t very good, since he’s your 12th pitcher off the bench) is going to contribute in that very limited amount of time?

    Any economist at this point would prove it.

    (good for the goose is good for the gander)

  301. John Says:

    “Fifty years ago, relief pitchers COULD pitch 100 innings. (Check out Dick Radatz with the 1964 Red of the great pitching seasons ever).”

    It was a remarkable season. But he only pitched 279 total after that.

  302. Chuck Says:

    Not the point.

  303. John Says:

    “And how much do you think that player (who clearly isn’t very good, since he’s your 12th pitcher off the bench) is going to contribute in that very limited amount of time?”

    But those guys still see 50-60 IP and can ease the burden of the rest of the bullpen.

    A back-up catcher, 1-2 utility players, and 1-2 extra outfielders are enough to give position players the rest they need.

  304. Raul Says:

    I say we head to AZ at some point in the future and iron out these baseball differences while getting shitfaced on Chuck’s dime.

    Alcohol and expletives is the only way to resolve this.

  305. John Says:

    Sounds like a plan, dude.

    Later y’all

  306. Chuck Says:

    “A back-up catcher, 1-2 utility players, and 1-2 extra outfielders are enough to give position players the rest they need.”

    Need at least one more for sure, maybe two.

    If you’re lucky enough to have a sub guy like Tony Phillips, who could play INF and OF both, OK, then one maybe enough.

    Or have a guy like Brandon Inge around, who can play OF/INF and catch.

    But if you have a dozen lefty hitting first baseman around like the Yankees, who can’t do anything else, then you’re shortsighting yourself.

    I would much rather have the additional bench options than the pitching options.

    Removing Boone Logan after two pitches is indefensible.

  307. Chuck Says:

    “I say we head to AZ at some point in the future and iron out these baseball differences while getting shitfaced on Chuck’s dime.”


    Bring Cameron along.

    Need a designated driver.

  308. brautigan Says:

    I strongly suggest during the Arizona Fall League.

    The pure joy of the AFL will remove the differences, and quickly.

  309. Raul Says:

    I’m fully aware that I missed last Spring, last Fall, and this Spring Training.

    I gotta go 1 for 4, or it’s off to the Independent League for me.


  310. Chuck Says:

    “I gotta go 1 for 4, or it’s off to the Independent League for me”

    You have to go to the Sabermetric conference next March, your roommie for the three days is Shaun.

  311. Raul Says:


    One of us wouldn’t make it out of there alive.

    So I’m looking at the LA/PIT box score.

    Andre Ethier: 0-0, 0 BB, 1 Run Scored.

    He got hit by a pitch.

  312. Raul Says:

    So I’m watching Jeff Karstens pitch.

    He’s down 3-0 to the Dodgers but I gotta say, Karstens has a very easy delivery. At least it looks that way.

    Not saying he’s the most dominant guy ever but nice motion and good movement.

  313. Raul Says:

    It’s too bad that Andrew McCutchen doesn’t have 40 HR power, because he’d win so many MVPs in the coming years if he did.

  314. Raul Says:

    LOL Pedro Alvarez is 0-2 with 2 strikeouts.

    I can’t believe I’m saying this, but the Pirates should look into getting Mark Reynolds…

  315. Mike Felber Says:

    Interesting discussion, & I am glad you guys like defenestrating each other with good will.

    Bob, I refer to the expression my right to extend my arm ends where your nose begins. An opinion about a political leader cannot be said to be hurting someone, if they do not like it they can critique it or ignore, but censorship is wrong.

    Sexual harassment is wrong, but what qualifies as that, in intent or effect, is a gray area. Some guys try to or do not care if they, say, humiliate woman. Other times it can be just not knowing the effect of what you say. Flirting 7 bawdy humor I think is fine, often great, but there must be some sensitivity to who receives or overhears the messages.

    There are certain delimited expressions that should be seen as fairly barred from Professional places. You can honestly & without malice report violent impulses, but that sets up an intimidating atmosphere. So would just honest unfiltered comments: guys know not to state every sexual impulse & wish they have, since that makes others uncomfortable even if they are not the object of desire.

    I cannot believe that Mo could not have gone for 100 IP for years, though i can believe that since he is not used to it he would not have been AS good. And I agree that a good reliever would be effectively used for ~ 100 or so IP.

  316. Cameron Says:

    @307 If you guys pay for my ticket to Arizona, sure. Why not? I could use a vacation.

  317. Bob Says:

    Cameron, I just googled jobs in Niles Ohio.

  318. Chuck Says:

    LOL Bob

  319. Cameron Says:

    Actually Bob, I just hit a pretty good set of openings last night. Three openings within two blocks of the house. The best one is a pharmacy technician at the grocery store.

  320. Bob Says:

    Rock and Roll. Good luck.

  321. Chuck Says:

    There’s a Low Class A Indians farm team in Warren..

    They’re hiring for a video production intern, no salary but a monthly living stipend..

    Requirements are:

    Ability to work as a team player. Strong multitasking, organizational and communication skills. Excellent customer service skills. Ability to work extended hours including nights, weekends and holidays. Proficient in basic computer programs and Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects and Premiere a plus.

    email resume to (Heather Sahli, Director of Marketing and Promotions)

  322. Chuck Says:

    John..need a comment moderated.

  323. Raul Says:

    Jankees take a 3-0 lead in the bottom of the 1st against Anaheim on what appears to have been a 3-run double from Nick Swisher.

    I think this is Pujols’ 1st game in Yankee Stadium. Not sure.

  324. Chuck Says:

  325. Raul Says:

    Who does Rendon remind you of, Chuck?

    Mike Lowell with less defense, maybe?

  326. Raul Says:

    Hiroki Kuroda laid the smack down against Anaheim in Game 1 of this series.
    8 innings
    5 hits
    2 walks
    6 strikeouts
    0 runs

  327. Raul Says:

    I’m actually not sure if the proper usage should have been “laid” or “layed”.

    Ah well.

  328. Chuck Says:

    Rendon’s defense is plus, I don’t think he’ll have Lowell’s power though.

    Now that he’s moved to second, I almost look at him as a righthanded Ackley.

  329. Cameron Says:

    @327 I believe in terms of smackdowns, the term is “layed”. Of course, I prefer the formal “layeth the smacketh downeth”.

    …The Rock is a big part of the WWE again, I’m entitled to my flashbacks to the 90s.

  330. brautigan Says:

    If I had flashbacks from the 70’s, that would be the drugs talking again…….

  331. Raul Says:

    It’s a scary thought to go down Braut’s memory lane.
    No doubt it’s littered with bong residue, Led Zeppelin records and various topless women passed out on a bearskin rug.

  332. Cameron Says:

    Raul, I think you confused scary with awesome.

  333. Raul Says:

    You may be right.

  334. Raul Says:


    Brandon Belt isn’t playing AGAIN.

    Bruce Bochy must really hate this kid.

  335. Bob Says:

    Sounds like a forthcoming article. What team should trade for Brandon Belt?

  336. Raul Says:


  337. Bob Says:

    Makes sense on the surface to me.

  338. Cameron Says:

    Minnesota has 8 holes in the offense to fill, trading for anyone makes sense to them.

  339. Raul Says:

    Well, I said Minnesota off the top of my head, without realizing that ultimately Joe Mauer will inherit that position. And well, Belt isn’t that great in the OF.

    Houston needs a 1B, but they have nothing to give SF in return.

    Washington could use a 1B, because Morse is terrible defensively and likely going to be moved anyway.

    Blah. I guess he stays in SF, but if Bochy doesn’t let him play through struggles (Christ, he’s essentially benched him after 11 ABs), Belt will be worthless.

  340. Chuck Says:

    The only disservice the Giants are doing to Belt is he isn’t playing everyday.

    Whether it be San Fran or Fresno is irrelevant.

    Sitting him because he’s slumping isn’t doing him any favors.

    They rode Buster Posey two years ago, and he went through a tough time for awhile, and they’re riding Brandon Crawford now.

    If the only reason Belt isn’t playing now is Aubrey Huff’s $11 million salary, then not only is that not Bochy’s fault, it’s also complete and total bullshit.

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