Carlos Quentin Locked Up – Why?

by JohnBowen

In 2008, Carlos Quentin had an MVP caliber season for the AL Central Division Champion White Sox. Actually, he probably would’ve won the thing if he played the last month of the season; Quentin hit .288/.394/.571 with 36 home runs and 100 RBI in just 130 games before a temper-induced wrist injury ended his year prematurely.

This year – four years later, for those of you keeping score – Quentin has hit very well for his new team, the San Diego Padres. That is, at least when healthy – hitting .288/.389/.525 in 40 games.

In between, Quentin was average-to-above average, and just as injury prone, missing 135 games due to injury.

Given this rather abbreviated success, it’s rather surprising that the Padres found it appropriate to sign him to a 3-year, 27 million dollar deal with a 10 million dollar option and no-trade clause. It’s the kind of move done by a team on the verge of competing…which the Padres aren’t.

Or the kind of deal that you would give to a player with Quentin’s positives if he played league average speed or defense…which Quentin does not (the latter is a problem that will surely be exacerbated by Petco’s massive dimensions).

Or the kind of deal given by a wealthy team with spots to fill…which, again, the Padres are not. They actually have the lowest payroll in the game at 55,244,700, slightly lower than Oakland.

So, it follows that they spent out about 16% of that to an often-injured player with little skill outside the batter’s box. For the sake of reference, that’s higher (by percentage) than the Yankees are currently paying ARod.

The only justification I can imagine is that the Padres are hoping to trade him, and are hoping for a peak-surge where Carlos forgets that it isn’t 2008 anymore, so that they can sell high.

Still, that would mean banking on other GM’s making stupid decisions while failing to see negative externalities. Not outside the realm of possibilities for some, but banking on it seems like a poor investment strategy, no?

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211 Responses to “Carlos Quentin Locked Up – Why?”

  1. Raul Says:

    I wouldn’t have gone with this contract, but it is just 3 years.

    Carlos Quentin is just 1 year older than Jacoby Ellsbury. And if Ellsbury got this contract, no one would have said a damn thing.

  2. Raul Says:

    Well…that’s not true.
    But many would justify it for Ellsbury.

  3. Cameron Says:

    Ellsbury at least has given Boston good numbers when he’s not (constantly getting) hurt. Quentin just sucks on toast.

  4. Cameron Says:

    Just clicked the “some” link. …Yeah. Great drafter, but can’t trade FOR SHIT! …Well, okay, the Greinke trade did well. But then he signs Yuni back anyway and might want Zack back?

    …Granted, that leaves every piece of the trade in KC and the Brewers holding nothing which is funny in a cosmic sense.

  5. Lefty33 Says:

    “They actually have the lowest payroll in the game at 55,244,700, slightly lower than Oakland.”

    FYI John, as usual USA Today’s numbers are crap.

    Oakland’s payroll is lower.

    USA Today is assuming that when Cespedes signed his contract that his 4/36 was equally spread across all four years but it wasn’t. He’s making 6.5 this year, not the 9.0 that they are reporting.

    Oakland’s payroll is 52.8 compared with San Diego’s 55.6.

  6. Chuck Says:

    Because Josh Byrnes is an idiot.

  7. Patrick Says:

    Yeah, I think it’s a stupid contract, but I think that about most of them. I’m sure there are minimum wage guys who are as good as Quentin. Petco is big too, 402′ to the power alleys diminishes Quentin’s already limited skill set.

  8. Chuck Says:

    You know, if a player is willing to give up some money in return for a no-trade then I have no problem with it.

    When I first saw the contract I thought it was a little on the inexpensive side, but he obviously felt the comfort of playing in the same place for the next four years was more important.

    Although nine million doesn’t go very far in San Diego.

  9. Patrick Says:

    Yeah, my cheeseburger at the Fox Sports bar was $15. Parking is $30 a night.

  10. John Says:

    Ah, ok, thanks Lefty.

  11. Chuck Says:

    Don’t use USA or ESPN for salary information..use Cot’s.

  12. JohnBowen Says:

    In the “but you’re a shitty team with no payroll” category, the Padres have locked up Huston Street for 2 years with an option.

    Um, again, why?

  13. JohnBowen Says:

    And the Brewers bullpen has blown their 20th game of the year.

  14. Chuck Says:

    Ten games below .500, sixteen games out of first, sixty-one games remaining on the year.

    At this point, you’re only rooting options are getting to .500 or the Pirates.

  15. Raul Says:

    Go Pirates!

  16. Chuck Says:

    Chris Johnson to Dbacks for Bobby Borchering and Marc Krauss.

    Johnson isn’t anything to write home about (although he did beat out Brett Wallace..take that for what it’s worth), but what I’m happy to see is the Dbacks purging of their system.

    For a couple of years they had a lame-duck ownership group and a sabermetrically inclined GM and field manager who were in charge and who set the franchise back ten years.

    The joke here was they thought the best way to build a solid team was not through up the middle defense but through corner offense.

    Look at the guys they drafted..Krauss, Borchering, Goldschmidt, Davidson, and a couple of others who escape me.

    This is what happens when the inmates run the asylum.

  17. Chuck Says:

    Brewers have apparently fixed their bullpen issues.

    Fired the bullpen coach.

  18. Raul Says:

    This is getting hilarious now.

    The Brewers won but they allowed 3 runs in the 9th and nearly blew it to the Asros.

  19. Mike Felber Says:

    Chuck you slimming down as planned? I accept getting heavier when regaining lost strength. i still have a 7″ drop measured between unexpanded chest & waist, but no question I have a stomach.

    Raul, you back on the [Chuck('s) presumably] wagon? Or just enjoying all the fine cuisine that NYC has to offer?

  20. Raul Says:

    Only been back a few days, Mike.

    The only cuisine I’m enjoying right now is mom’s cooking.

  21. Lefty33 Says:

    Phillies are supposedly close to dealing Victorino to the Dodgers for Josh Lindblom and token minor league throw in. It shows how far he has killed his stock this year if the best they can get in return is a bullpen pitcher in his first full season and in essence a PTBNL.

    Good luck getting that five year deal this offseason Shane.

    Juan Pierre to the Reds is on hold as they are not offering anything of value in return, yet.

    Tom Verducci this morning on Mike & Mike all but guarenteed the Cliff Lee will remain a Phillie and that the Giants are willing to back up the Brinks truck of talent to get Pence but Amaro’s asking price for him is loony tunes.

    Brief rumor last night had the A’s showing interest in Rollins if Amaro would eat contract. (I’ll believe that when I see it.)

    Blanton to the Orioles is also on hold because the O’s want the Phils to eat contract and that apparently has stalled thingsas well.

  22. Lefty33 Says:

    Domonic Brown was just pulled from the starting lineup about an hour before the IronPigs Noon start today against Syracuse. He is supposedly en route to meet up with the Phillies in Washington meaning that Victorino and/or Pierre are gone.

  23. Chuck Says:


    Yes and no..losing, just not as fast as I would like. The “diet” part is fine, but just like always finding 45 minutes to an hour a day to work remains impossible.

    The goals remain the same, it’s the timeframe that I need to adjust.

  24. Chuck Says:

    A’s have requested medicals on Stephen Drew, so I doubt the Rollins rumors were anything more than an overzealous writer’s imagination.

  25. Lefty33 Says:

    Phillies traded Victorino to the Dodgers in exchange for Josh Lindblom and Ethan Martin.

  26. Lefty33 Says:

    Just a thought: With the acquisition of Martin, Amaro now has at AA a rotation of May, Martin, Pettibone, and Rodriguez.

    If those guys pan out they will either make awesome trade bait or Amaro has set himself up with the pieces to move Halladay and Lee next year or the year after and make more space under the tax threshold for other moves.

  27. Lefty33 Says:

    Jon Heyman via Twitter is reporting that to counter the Dodgers getting Victorino the Giants are nearing a deal with Philly for Pence.

  28. Lefty33 Says:

    Pence to Giants a done deal.

  29. Lefty33 Says:

    Phillies pick up Giants AA catching prospect Tommy Joseph for Pence.

    This sets up an interesting scenario for Philly where you have Ruiz at 33 having a career year with a cheap $5 million dollar option for next year along with homegrown catching prospect Sebastian Valle at AA Reading and Joseph coming in at the AA level as well.

    Someone is getting flipped/moved at some point in the future.

  30. John Says:

    Amaro’s having some fun with that division race, huh?

  31. John Says:

    So, the Phillies gave up Jarred Cosart and Jonathon Singleton – both top-50 prospects – to get Hunter Pence, won a division they were going to win anyway, and flipped Pence to get a pretty whatever AA catcher?

    I’m gonna go ahead and say that that didn’t work out the way Amaro was hoping.

  32. Lefty33 Says:

    I hate to pass judgement early because I don’t know if other players are involved or if Amaro is done but right now John you’re right that the Pence deal looks pretty fucking stupid.

    Amaro gave up three guys in Cosart-Singelton-and Domingo Santana that were all top 10 prospects in the system for a guy that didn’t even play a full season for the Phils.

    Makes no sense at all and it really makes me question how Amaro and the people around him evaluate talent.

  33. Lefty33 Says:

    Heyman is reporting that Nate Schierholtz will coming to Philly along with a pitcher, like minor leaguer, of some sort.

  34. Lefty33 Says:

    Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun is reporting that The Phillies, now that they have gotten the payroll reduction they were looking for, have backed off of their position of not paying any of Blanton’s contract to move him and that a deal is very close to happening that will send him to the O’s.

  35. Lefty33 Says:

    Olney, Heyman and multiple others are reporting that the D-Backs are trying to put together something big for big name SP.

    One of smaller ESPN “insiders” mentioned that it could be Lee for Upton.

    I believe that when I see it.

  36. John Says:

    Lee for Upton?

    Yeah, I’m with you…doesn’t seem like a deal that makes a ton of sense…Philly gets two years of Upton, and is still on the hook for the bulk of Lee’s contract (I would think).

  37. John Says:

    Dempster to the Rangers? Can anyone else verify this?

  38. Chuck Says:


    Joseph played in the Future’s Game, he’s an intriguing guy in that he can play first and the OF as well.

    You’ll like Nate Schierholtz, lefty, the kid’s got a cannon from the OF and in that bandbox could be a 20-25 HR guy with regular AB’s.

  39. Chuck Says:

    The Phillies tried to make Singleton an OF since he he’s blocked by Ryan Howard’s contract but it didn’t work out.

    They had no choice to move him..Cosart too, for that matter.

    It’s like being a SS in the Yankees’ system or a C with Minnesota. You have two options for a ML career;

    1) Learn another position, or;

    2) Be fortunate enough someone else wants you.

  40. Chuck Says:

    Dempster to Rangers is official.

    Once MLB signs off on the $$ involved, the other players will be announced. I don’t think it will be much.

  41. Chuck Says:

    Hat’s off to Brian Cashman…if the acquisition of Casey McGeehee doesn’t nail down ring #28, then I’m the tooth fairy.

  42. Chuck Says:

    Players for Dempster are two A ball players..3B Christian Villanueva and P Kyle Hendricks.

  43. Chuck Says:

    Bob must be happy…Red Sox finally got rid of Lars Anderson..for some Double A knuckleballer.


  44. Mike Felber Says:

    You must mean work “out” Chuck. Though i prefer longer & less frequent workouts, 20 minutes that are a bit intense 3 or more a week is better than 40-60 a couple times once or possibly even twice a week. And intervals training can be even quicker, sprinting or other max. exertion for a minute or so alternating with walking. but the slower rate of losing is better. Much more likely to not burn muscle +keep off the weight!

  45. Brautigan Says:

    Agreed with #38. I traded for Schierholtz in my strato league a year ago just for this day, the day he got traded out of San Francisco. He could be the “next” Shin Soo Choo.

  46. Chuck Says:

    You’re a weightlifter Mike.

    What you do and what real athletes do aren’t close to being the same thing.

    In a perfect world, I would do 30-60 minutes of cardio every day, with the activities spaced out between treadmill or eliptical, basketball, roller blading or jumping rope.

    Interspersed would be sport related activities, like throwing, catching groundballs or flyballs, or spending 20 at the cages.

    I have no interest at all in the gym life.

  47. Brautigan Says:

    Gym life smells funny.

    Give me the great outdoors to work/play in.

  48. Chuck Says:

    I really don’t see the point.

    I mean, if you’re rehabbing from Tommy John or from an ACL, then weights are important, but to just go to the gym four times a day just to pound iron, sorry, don’t get it.

    Having biceps bigger than a seven year old’s waist means nothing except to your tailor.

  49. Bob Says:

    For the record, I am less than enthralled for the return the Sox got for Lars Anderson. Though I wish him well in Cleveland.
    Now, back to the Olympics.

  50. Chuck Says:

    As long as the kid doesn’t make the Akron to Portland trip in the back of a hearse, you should be thrilled.

  51. John Says:

    Brewers are up 8-1 in the 6th, facing the worst team in baseball.

    I’m genuinely curious as to how the bullpen will find a way to blow this.

  52. Lefty33 Says:

    @39 – It’s still a dumbass deal.

    Amaro gives up three top 10 organizational prospects for less than a year of Pence/not having to pay tax and in return gets a 24 year old high A nothing pitcher, a meh OF, and C/1B prospect who is blocked at 1B and with the team already having their own C prospect at AA plus with Ruiz playing the way he is this year I don’t care how you slice it the deal is stupid.

    Maybe the upside is that Valle gets moved for something else or Joseph gets flipped for something else but in the end if Amaro doesn’t move anyone he else he really hasn’t done a thing to improve the team where they most need help as of now.

    All he did today was ensure that the team won’t pay tax in ‘12 and that they are set up to not pay tax in ‘13. Great for Montgomery, bad for moving the franchise forward.

  53. Raul Says:

    Arod went down
    Jeter is batting exactly how you would expect him to after his hot April
    Teixeira is day to day

    Wouldn’t surprise me if they choked and didn’t even make the playoffs.

    On the bright side, Joba Chamberlain is back.
    No more donuts and beer in the clubhouse now.

  54. Raul Says:

    So the Yankees traded Chad Qualls for Casey McGehee?

    Person A: What’s in your bag?
    Person B: Dog poop. What’s in yours?
    Person A: Bird poop.
    Person B: Trade?
    Person A: Deal.

  55. Raul Says:

    I don’t hate the Red S

  56. Raul Says:

    Piece of shit.
    I don’t hate the Red Sox as much as the Rangers these days.
    Ryan Dumpster can suck it.

    How many beers would it take to bribe Joba Chamberlain into drilling the first 3 Rangers batters he sees this year in the ass?

    This was a joke.
    Sort of.

  57. Mike Felber Says:

    Chuck, I did not at all suggest you should go to the gym, don’t know how you got that from me. I also did not suggest that what i do is good or enough for a “real” athlete-though for a competitive lifter it is a start.

    I am tolerant of various approaches & do not say all should do what I like. Why the gratuitous & backwards insult about lifters? you imply it is all about vanity-absurd. Sure, for some, like some run for 6 packs & bragging rights. But there is tremendous evidence now that resistance training is at least as important for overall fitness as cardio. For maintaining functional abilities, weight, appearance, whatever.

    Though I usually walk a good amount, i do no cardio. Someone who does no real resistance training has an equally unbalanced approach, if total fitness is the goal.

    And while it has varied, for years i have usually gone 2x a week. For months at a time on a few occasions 4x. No need to assume we all attend to have biceps/beach muscles. Whether realizing goals, changing shape, or the endorphins afterwards, the rewards are broadly similar to aerobic exercise.

  58. Chuck Says:

    “It’s still a dumbass deal.”

    Sure, because Pence is in San Fran.

    Pretty clear now what Amaro’s game plan was all along.

  59. Chuck Says:

    This is why I hate this time of year.

  60. Raul Says:

    Sounds like made-up nonsense.

    That Red Sox/Rangers article was written just to get page hits.

  61. Raul Says:

    Been lost over the last few days. The Pirates got Gaby Sanchez and Wandy Rodriguez.

    So who is playing 1B in Miami?
    Oh…El Caballo

  62. Chuck Says:

    Sanchez was actually in AAA.

    He’s really taken a suck pill this year..and has been running his mouth about not playing, so probably not a bad move for him.

  63. Chuck Says:

    Yanks could have had Chase Headley but wouldn’t trade David Phelps.

    Hopefully Casey McGeehee does more than wipe out the postgame spread.

  64. Chuck Says:

    12:46pm: The Diamondbacks are not currently discussing a deal with the Cubs involving Upton and Garza, reports’s Steve Gilbert. IT WAS ONLY OLNEY’S SPECULATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    5:33pm: The Dbacks were indeed in discussion with the Cubs regarding Matt Garza, Olney confirms (via Twitter).

    So, Olney makes up a story (shocking, I know)..gets busted..can’t provide any sources (his dog?)..and spends four hours in damage control..and finally throws out a Tweet which in his feeble brain takes himself off the hook?



  65. Lefty33 Says:

    “Sure, because Pence is in San Fran.”

    It’s not because Pence is in San Fran in so much as because the franchise is again in a worse spot than it was a year ago because Amaro keeps compounding stupid moves on top of each other.

    It’s true that last year the whole Francisco/Brown RF platoon really wasn’t working but at the same time a lot of the Domonic Brown saga has been caused by the organization’s handling of him.

    No matter how you slice it Amaro fucked up by giving up three of the organization’s top 10 prospects for a guy that they didn’t even get a year out of. The only person who won again is David Montgomery because the Phillies overpaid the Astros to not have to pay tax last year, they took inferior bullshit from the Giants in a salary dump to not have to pay tax this year, and unless Amaro lights up the FA market and signs someone big to play OF/3B they are 100% set up to do what….not pay tax again next year.

    What they got from the Giants for Pence is really not impressive.

    Seth Rosin is a 23 year old A ball stiff relief pitcher.
    He’s nothing more than PTBNL material.

    Schierholtz is the LH platoon version of K-Berry just without the K’s and without any power.

    Yeah I know he’s played in AT&T and that’s kept his power numbers down but his career splits suggest otherwise. His BA/OBP/SLG/OPS are all almost identical at AT&T versus on the road. His best road baseball has been played in Colorado and Pittsburgh not in Philly where he is a career .241 hitter.

    He’s had over 1300 PA’s in his career and hasn’t hit 25 home runs yet.
    I’ll believe it when I see it that he’s going to hit 20-25 home runs in a season anywhere other than in a video game.

    Which in reality makes the whole deal into nothing more than Joseph for Pence.

    The Phillies already have their homegrown successor for Ruiz picked in Valle, who they just promoted to AAA last night, and with Ruiz playing the way he is and the talk of him getting an extension that makes Joseph nothing more than trade bait.

    He’s blocked at 1B, he’s got Valle in front of him, Ruiz could be around for another 3-4 more years so I guess if Amaro can either move Valle or flip Joseph then the deal could look OK if it’s for something they need.

    Past that it’s a pointless pick up because it addresses none of the team’s deficiencies and they’re still out three excellent prospects and only got one in return for dealing with the same player.

  66. Lefty33 Says:

    I like how Roy Oswalt learned that he was being sent to the pen, via beat writer Drew Davidson’s Twitter feed.

  67. Chuck Says:

    These moves have to be ownership driven..hard to blame Amaro when the guy who signs HIS check is banging on his door to cut payroll.

    Phils have four $20 mil players and two others at thirteen plus.

    That leaves about $50 million to spread around between 18 players.

    Howard, Lee, Halladay, Hamels, Paplebon, Utley, and Clearwater.

  68. Lefty33 Says:

    I got you Chuck.

    FWIW, I did have a brief discussion last night with a guy (MC) from the Phillies minor league staff who said that he also thinks the move is not the greatest and that he assumes either Valle or Joseph will be gone from the organization sooner rather than later.

  69. Chuck Says:

    They’re essentially the same player…questionable offense with decent catching skills.

    Valle is the oldest by a year and Joseph has 1B and 3B experience..don’t know how much that would matter..if at all.

  70. Raul Says:

    Jose Canseco filed for bankrupcy.

  71. Chuck Says:

    Now his financial status matches his mental status.

  72. Raul Says:

    Canseco didn’t really come up when players earned the kinds of dollars they do now.

    Still, I imagine he was pretty well off. According to baseball reference he earned 45 million dollars. It’s not A-Rod Money. But it’s certainly the kind of money that should sustain a family for several lifetimes.
    It always stings me a little bit when people squander great fortunes like that. Even though in some cases you can see that coming.

    As for me…45 million? I could live a lifetime like a king in the DR with 450k.
    But I guess I don’t have an expensive steroids habit.

  73. Raul Says:

    Could just be me…but Miguel Cabrera looks slimmer these days.

  74. Mike Felber Says:

    Ah, Chuck hates one of the 2 most primary training building blocks of basic fitness & health, strength training, because he associates it with a touched ‘roid head like Canseco! Well he was honest & correct about so much, despite his issues & self aggrandizement.

  75. Brautigan Says:

    Yu Darvish sucked again. When will teams quit shelling out huge bucks for Japanese ball players? With a rare exception, (Ichiro) they don’t earn it.

  76. Brautigan Says:

    Laughing at Lefty. Schierholtz first game as a Philly and what does he do? He homers. LOL

  77. Chuck Says:



  78. Chuck Says:

    Mike, the average six foot, 190 pound hockey player could walk into your gym and wipe the floor with anyone there.

    Being muscular doesn’t equate to being in shape.

    That little pis-ant who won the Tour de France could kick your ass up one side of 2nd Ave. and down the other.

    You see those little midget divers at the Olympics..every single one of those guys is in better far..than any guy at your gym.

    Listening to you talk about working out/diet is like listening to John talk about’re defending something you believe in without really understanding it.

    Which is OK, obviously, just don’t expect anyone to pay attention.

  79. Chuck Says:

    Rangers called up Mike Olt.

  80. Chuck Says:

    Don’t look now..


    Encarnacion: 28

    Pujols: 22

  81. Raul Says:

    Pujols may catch Encarnacion by the end of the month. Wow.

    These Olympians are in tremendous shape. Maybe I should have been a swimmer. Too bad I can’t swim.

    Those guys who do the canoeing and rowing…impressive stuff. My upper body would be burning.
    Oh, and Water Polo is probably A LOT harder than it looks.

  82. Brautigan Says:

    C’mon EDWIN!

  83. Chuck Says:

    When I was a kid…12, 13..I went to a sports camp during the summer.

    Water polo was a choice.

    I loved it..never could get into soccer or tennis or even golf at that time, but I was first in line for the water polo.

  84. Chuck Says:

    Hey Braut..I hear Portland is getting a minor league team..and if they play their cards right..possibly two.

  85. Chuck Says:

  86. Bob Says:

    Water polo is more difficult than most people thik. The water is over your head, ie you cannot rest on the bottom. You have to sctch the ball on a pass with one hand, although the goalie is allowed to use both.
    One of the criteria for becoming a lifeguard is treading water with a 10 poud water brick in your hands. In other words, all legs. The one excercise I would people to do daily other than sex? Swimming, and by a mile over any other excercise.

  87. Bob Says:

    Derek Lowe was dfa’d. Wonder if the Sox pick him up. nd if they do not, I woder if anyone grabs him.

  88. Brautigan Says:

    It looks like Hillsboro is getting Yakima’s team (Diamdonbacks short season A team), and Milwaukie, which tried to get Yakima’s team had said they were out of the running, but apparently, there is another team (I don’t know which one) is interested in moving to Milwaukie. The stadium (to be built) would be about two miles from my house, or 8 to 10 minutes by bike.

    I have my fingers crossed. I’d prefer AAA, but at this point, I am begging and I ain’t choosing.

  89. Chuck Says:

    I’m still laughing at how badly Jeff Moorad fucked up the whole Portland/Tucson/Escondido deal.

  90. Lefty33 Says:

    @84 – The update since that BA story was written over a week ago is that the team they talked about going to Milwaukie is not happening.

    The city of Milwaukie pissed away 160K on trying to secure a team/studies of whether an A ball team could survive there with another A ball team moving in so close in Hillsboro and the answer was a resounding no.

  91. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 88 – The story I was reading on said that big reason Milwaukie backed out was because the entire project with the stadium, parking, etc. would have cost $50 million to build and that would have made it the most expensive A ball facility ever built in minor league baseball history.

    I guess in less technical speak, no one could ever make money on that deal unless the city was going to eat a ton of the costs.

    The article on the same site by Victoria Edwards seems to innuendo that any team that comes might be independant. She said that the city council will vote on the 7th whether to move forward at all and that if they do they want everything done and ready to open by the time the light rail is extended to Milwaukie in ‘15.

  92. Lefty33 Says:

    Just read that on the 7th the city council is not even talking about an A ball team but about building a stadium for a new team for the West Coast League.

    The driving issue is cost as to build a stadium for that league would cost about $25 million versus the $50 million for a stadium associated with an affiliated team.

  93. Chuck Says:

    So, wait..

    The Portland town council is willing to spend $25 million for a team that plays 50 games per year and is basically the WC version of the Cape Cod League?

    The average attendance for the league is 1056.

    Counting interest, it will take 32,000 years to pay it off.


  94. Brautigan Says:

    It’s not the Portland city council….but the Milwaukie city council.

    They could pay it off in not time flat. The City of Milwaukie gives out so many speeding tickets, they do not have the staff to handle the amount of money coming in to their coffers (hint: DO not exceed the speed limit in Milwaukie, Oregon, they will give you a ticket and the police are complete bastards).

  95. Brautigan Says:

    SNAFU as usual when it comes to Portland and baseball….sigh

    And I too laugh at Moorad’s madness. I see the Padres are still in lowly Tuscon.

  96. Lefty33 Says:

    Oregon seems to really know how to handle baseball.

    It’s just like the city of Medford that spent almost $30 million dollars to build the Harry and David Field complex that could house a minor league level team but the city banned all affiliated baseball teams from ever relocating there.

    It’s the home of the Southern Oregon Riverdawgs of the Far West League and it is the top home for high school baseball tournaments in the NW.

  97. Lefty33 Says:

    I forgot to mention the fields other main tenant aside of the Riverdawgs is the Medford Mustangs, who are a Legion team.

  98. Chuck Says:

    I grew up in the late ’60’s through the 70’s.

    I played on some high quality, high talent teams..Legion champions, travel teams, seven years or so of traveling semi-pro.

    I’m not talking about Saturday afternoon, drink a case of beer then go home and make a baby baseball.

    I played on fields cows wouldn’t shit on.

    And the city of Wherever the Fuck in Oregon is going to build a $25 million facility for a bunch of college jerk-offs?

    The year he graduated college, Jeff Bagwell was 5′10″ 185.

    The year I graduated I was 5′9″ 175.

    We were both third baseman.

    If I was born 20 years later and “knew a guy who knew a guy” I’d be on the HOF ballot myself.

    Fuck me.

  99. Mike Felber Says:

    Bagwell, IF he used, needed to be at least a decent player at the MLB level to be great with PEDs. And not all get the same benefit out of them. Any indication you could approach these 2 uncontrolled factors, like being a legitimate starter in MLB b-ball clean? Or is that another hhyperbole which is impossible to discern?

  100. Mike Felber Says:

    I have no indication you know as MUCH about fitness as I do Chuck. And your hostile condescension where you falsely imply others will not listen to me would be wrong even if you knew more than me.

    1) You have no idea who is at my gym, & seem to presume they are all 1 dimensional muscle heads. Do you realize how often you traffic in insulting & simplistic stereotypes?

    Since you are determined to bring it into a combat question which was not the point-some at my gym are in superb shape. That hockey player-assuming he is a fighter to any extent, not a Gretzky is big enough that he could beat up most of those in my gym. Not all. I have seen professional heavyweight boxers at my gym, a Russian Jew once, Dennis Rodman once, & for years a Latino that got up to 25 fairly lean. I brought a friend there who was a boxer. Those guys, & a few others who had enough athleticism & size, would win.

    I do not know why you personalize this-I never claimed to be a fighter. But an average Tour de France guy would have superb endurance & much athleticism in some areas, but little upper body power. There are weight categories in all forms of combat & wrestling because this & muscle, to an extent height, matters. Don’t know why you think he could defeat in combat an average bulky guy. But I doubt you will give a SUBSTANTIVE answer why I am wrong.

    Lastly, the midget divers? Is the average one even shorter than you? But height is irrelevant to fitness. A single thing you may be correct about-that diving demands enough athleticism that they all MAY be more fit than any at my gym, now at least. Though we do not know that-you would be much better to say swimmer, the sport demands greater aerobic & overall capacity.

    But this was another Straw Man Chuck. You do not have the patience to carefully consider what I am saying, so you ASSUME a whole bunch of things that I believe, then burn the Straw Man. Where did anything I saw at all imply ANY of the things you argued about fighting ability & fitness of divers vs. gym rats?

    C’mon dude, you can do better than that. I just said that lifting is at least as important as cardio for overall fitness & functionality-perhaps especially for older folks actually. You introduce a steel cage match & MMA champion fighting capacity bicyclist absurdities.

  101. Mike Felber Says:

    Whoops, that competitive boxer was 265 lbs., not 25! Other gyms have had some amateur & pro HW boxers. The biggest & best NFL enforcers might have a chance against them or wiin in a ring or a s fair street fight. Not against a top fighter though.

  102. Chuck Says:

    “Bagwell, IF he used..”


    Pick one of the two.

    a)Tomorrow, the sun will rise in the East.

    b)Jeff Bagwell took steriods.

    Pick the most likely.

    (Hint..if you picked a, you’re wrong)

    You fucking crack me up.

  103. Chuck Says:

    “I just said that lifting is at least as important as cardio for overall fitness & functionality-perhaps especially for older folks actually.”

    And I said you’re wrong.

    What part of that don’t you understand?

    This is a baseball site..what you know about baseball wouldn’t cover the head of a thumbtack.

    Anything else you say on an subject is a fart in the wind.

  104. Len Says:

    Bagwell could always hit it’s just his HR/rate went through the roof in 1994. He went from being a good/very good player in 1991-1993 to being a great player from 1994-2003.

    Bagwell put up a .321/.410/.436 line in the minors which includes a few P.A.’s from later on in his career.

    He put up a .295/.380/.464 line from 1991-1993 which is very good in for the Astrodome.

    He put up a .368/.451/.750, 1.201 OPS in 1994.

    From 1991-1993 he hit 53 Home Runs in 1675 At Bats which averages out to 3.16 home runs per 100 at bats.

    In 1994 he hit 39 home runs in 400 at bats which is a rate of 9.75 home runs per 100 at bats. What’s even more crazy is he broke Jimmy Wynn’s single season Astro HR record of 37 and it only took him about 380 At Bats to do it. He hit 23 home runs in 201 at bats in the Astrodome in 1994 for a rate of 11.44 HR per 100 At Bats. That’s just crazy.

    This is all coming from a guy who hit 8 Home Runs in minors in 710 at bats for a rate of 1.126 HR per 100 at bats.

  105. Mike Felber Says:

    Once again Chuck, you ignored almost ALL of what I wrote. What you said:

    1) Bagwell used ‘roids. Which you gave as an unsupported premise, Though we have been over it at length.

    2) You disagreed that weights as important as cardio for overall fitness. Again, with ZERO evidence cited. I can send, or better yet you can find, endless links indicating that this is true.

    And you then say I know little about baseball-again no reason, an opinion you give yo seemingly all who disagree with you about, say sabermetrics having some merit.

    I went easy on you on the absurd statement that weightlifting was not a real sport. It cannot be stressed enough though how much you:

    1) Stereotype those you differ with. Pencil neck, dweeb, if you lift must be all for foolish vanity-this is reflexive, ugly mockery.

    2) Show contempt by saying things like you are embarrassing yourself, nobody is listening to you…

    ALL things that are unsupported but share the common characteristic of being coldly mean & not having any substance to them.

    Why you are driven to be so disdainful & petty-well, i hope at least you know.

    if you say I think you are totally wrong, often, great. If you give real reasons, very good. But you so often stoop to jockery.

    A term I invented just now. That is, a jock or ex jock’s mockery.

    Why are you not embarrassed to not be above this by your age?

    This is not said to humiliate-I would be a hypocrite if I did what you do. This is an honest question. I do not treat you that way.

  106. Mike Felber Says:

    Len, we have ben through this at length before. Though besides that some guys commonly grow into power, you must at least consider the normalized HR rate. It rose for all starting when Baggy’s rate did. The question remains is there good evidence, & is it so implausible that a player coming into his prime just when the league explodes with power & gains significantly from weight training could hit HRs at that rate.

  107. Chuck Says:

    Pleasure, as always Mike.

  108. Chuck Says:

    The Phillies have to be overly delusional if they think the Dodgers are going to take all of Cliff Lee’s $93 million and give up three or four quality prospects.

  109. Raul Says:

    I just don’t see this crazy infatuation with Lee. He’s not that good. He’s not worth that money.

    I guess to be fair, pitching in Dodger Stadium could make a lot of guys look better so maybe Lee would do well to pitch in LA.

  110. Len Says:


    Well I think the problem with Bagwell is how “drastically” his Hr-power/rates spiked around 1994. There was no drug testing back then so I don’t know for certain but his career spikes don’t make any sense. Also, go back and look his baseball cards from the early 90’s and compare them to his cards from 1999-2000. It doesn’t even look like the same guy. He was basically a Mark Grace/Wally Joyner type of player that turned into Jimmie Foxx around 1994.

    He broke the Astros single season HR & RBI record in 1994 in about 380 at bats. Only 5 Astro players had ever hit 30+ HR or had 100 RBI’s in season from 1962-1993 and Bagwell was on a pace to hit 54 HR and 160 RBIs before his injury and the strike.

    He had a .750 slugging percentage in 1994 while no Astro with 479 At Bats had ever had a higher slg. percentage than .537. This coming from a guy with a career slugging percentage (1991-1993) of .464 in 1956 plate appearances.

    The Astros from 1962-1993 only had 5 instances where a player surpassed 30+ HR in a season. Jeff Bagwell surpassed 30+ HR 5 times from 1994-1999 surpassing 40 twice. 1999 was the last year of the Astrodome.

    It doesn’t make sense. Playing in the Astrodome, his HR/rate from 1994-1999 was 6.8 HR/per 100 at bats. This is coming from a guy who had a rate of about 1.1 HR/per 100 at bats in the minors and a rate of 3.16 HR/per 100 at bats from 1991-1993.

  111. Len Says:

    The Phillies have some crazy payroll obligations with 30+ year old players in the next 3-4 years.

    The Phillies probably should have just kept Lee for the 2010 season and then just let him leave for free agency after the season. Maybe they beat the Giants in the NLCS.

    It seems like Tyson Gilles was the best prospect they got out of that trade. I don’t know that much about him, maybe Chuck knows something about him.

  112. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 109 – The thing with Lee is that when he’s on he’s probably the best LH SP in the game. The problem is that he’s hyper streaky.

    Last year in the month of June he puts up probably the best month that any pitcher has ever had in the history of the sport with three straight GC’s and only allowing one earned run over 42 IP.

    Then came July and he was tagged for at least four earned runs in four of his five starts.

    Even this year he’s had brilliant starts against the Giants, twice against the Dodgers, his last start against Washington. But then he gave up at least four earned in consecutive starts to Baltimore, Tampa, Miami, and Toronto.

    That’s the frustrating nature of Cliff Lee.

    When he’s on he’s the best.

    When he’s not he looks horrible and there is rarely a middle ground.

  113. Lefty33 Says:

    “It seems like Tyson Gilles was the best prospect they got out of that trade.”

    Aumont is easily the better of the two. If he didn’t spend two months on the DL earlier this year, he would have been pitching in Philly a while ago.

    I would be shocked if he is not in their pen next year on opening day.

    Gillies has missed a ton of time due to hamstring and leg injuries in past seasons and this year he’s missed more time because of the same issues. While his BA has been alright his SB and speed have taken a dive because of it.

    But on a sidebar, Gillies has been suspended by the team indefinitly for getting into an altercation with the team busdriver two weeks ago. He hasn’t played since July 16th and the team is weighing whether to cut him or whether to try and go through some sort of therapy route.

    This is on top of the cocaine charges that were brought against him last offseason and a few other off the field issues he’s had since joining the Phillies organization.

    He’s got zero chance at progessing in red and white pinstripes.

  114. Bob Says:

    Mason Williams ids done for the season. Surgery on his left labrum.

  115. John Says:

    Well, remember it was a 3-way deal that made Halladay a Phillie for his 2010 Cy Young season.

    I agree with Len’s assessment -Lee is very Jekyl and Hyde. It averages to terrific numbers, but he’s not gonna turn in 30 quality starts a year like Sabathia or Felix.

    He’s giving up a lot more HR this year, which has been the biggest difference in his performance.

  116. Lefty33 Says:

    “The Phillies have some crazy payroll obligations with 30+ year old players in the next 3-4 years.”

    They do but they don’t.

    Their payroll situation is all about whether they can get some of their own internal pieces to step up.

    Assuming Lee is not dealt, I think he will be but for now he’s still around so I’ll go with it, they need a #5 SP, a 3B, and two OF for next year in their starting lineup.

    The SP slot will probably get filled from within with some form of Cloyd, May, Rodriguez, or Pettibone from AAA and AA respectively.

    They’ve got jack at 3B so that’s a spot where Amaro will have to go out and spend some $$$ on. Brown is going to be given his 4th chance at making it and between him and K-Berry someone is going to get the job and that likely makes the OF some combo of Schierholz, Brown/Mayberry, and Nix unless Amaro signs someone or gets someone for Lee.

    The bullpen will probably be filled in on the cheap from guys like Aumont and DeFratus and I would think that past going out and getting another veteran type arm to add a little depth to the pen I think they’re going to hang with a lot of what they have now with Papelbon, Bastardo, Diekman, Lindblom, and Kendrick.

    A lot of these names are super cheap like Lindblom, Diekman, Bastardo, Cloyd, May, Pettibone, K-Berry, Nix, and Schierholz which should let Amaro spend something large on a 3B and maybe an OF and hope that the kids can fill in the gaps without going over the 178 number which is all Montgomery cares about.

  117. Len Says:


    I don’t know that much about those Phillies prospects I was just looking at their raw stats. Gilles had a .307/.400/.433 line in the minors and a .291/.372/.434 in double A this year which looks pretty good for CF. I didn’t know about the behavior problems and the suspension. Seems like they’re dealing with maturity issue with him which could be a huge headache.

    Aumont’s overall raw numbers didn’t look that impressive. 4.16 era, 1.45 whip and a 2.01 K/BB ratio. The K”s are his best attribute looking at his 9.9 k/9 ratio but his 4.9 bb/9 ratio looks like his achilles heel.

    Yeah I could see him as a middle reliever in the Phillies pen next year.

    The Phillies also got a guy name Ramirez in that trade.

    It still doesn’t look like a good trade from a Phillies stand point. They gave up Cliff Lee for the 2010 season and two compensation draft picks when he would have left for free agency for a middle reliever.

    Who knows if they still would have made the Oswalt trade which cost them 3 prospects.

    I would have rather gone against the Giants with Halladay, Lee, Hamels and Blanton or Halladay, Lee, Hamels and Oswalt.

  118. John Says:

    Again: Lee was traded for Halladay (with several prospects changing teams).

    There was no way the Phillies would have had both gentlemen for 2010.

  119. Lefty33 Says:

    Either way they wouldn’t have beat the Giants regardless of their rotation.

    Only two guys hit over .265 in that series and one of them was Roy Halladay.

    They hit .216 as a team. Done.

  120. Chuck Says:

    Gillies is deaf.

    He seems like a nice guy..has chronic hamstring issues..missed almost two years then re-injured it a couple of weeks ago..and this after missing two months with a concussion.

    The cocaine charges were dropped although he was arrested for public intoxications, and as Lefty said is now indefinitely suspended for going postal on the Reading bus driver.

    What would possess a guy to go off on a bus driver is beyond me, other than not getting lost he really has no responsibilities to the team.

  121. Len Says:


    This is for 2013:

    33-Howard-$20 million
    36-Lee-$25 million
    35-Utley-$15 million
    36-Halladay-$20 million
    32-Papelbon-$13 million
    34-Rollins-$11 million

    That’s about $100 million on 6 players 32 or older. And that’s not including $19 million for Cole Hammels at 29 years of age.

    2014 is basically the same except that Halladay has a $20 million option for 2014 if he pitches 225 innings in 2013. Howard’s contract gets really crazy and goes up to $25 million. Hamels will get $22.5 million at age 30.

    Utley’s a free agent after 2013 so it’s going to be interesting where they go from there.

  122. Lefty33 Says:

    A few points Len:

    1. Hamels makes 20.5 next year not 19. (His 6 million signing bonus gets spread at 1 million per season over all six years of his deal.)

    2. Halladay’s option is based on him pitching 225 IP in ‘13 plus 415 IP in ‘12-’13 (not happening)plus he can’t be on the DL at the end of the ‘13 season.

    The Phillies are currently on the hook for call it 138 million for Howard, Utley, Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Ruiz, Papelbon, Rollins, Kendrick, and Nix.

    More than likely Lee gets moved at some point but even if he doesn’t that gives Amaro about $40 million to finish out the roster and the majority of the rest of the guys like Cloyd, Aumont, Bastardo, De Fratus, Diekman, Lindblom, Brown, K-Berry, etc. will be making less than 750K next year.

    Aside of Schierholz they have no arbitration issues this offseason so if they can get some of their own internal pieces to preform and stay healthy they could bring the roster in at around 178 and still have enough to sign say Michael Bourn (hot rumor of the day on Comcast) and if they move Lee and someone is crazy enough to take his full contract then Amaro’s job for next year is pretty easy.

  123. Len Says:

    @John 118,

    Lee wasn’t traded for Halladay (with several prospects changing teams)?? What?

    Halladay was traded from the Blue Jays on 12/16/09 for 3 top prospects in the Phillies system (Travis D’arnaud, Kyle Drabek, and Michael Taylor). All were drafted by the Phillies.

    Lee was traded later that day to the Seattle Mariners supposedly to replenish the Phillies farm system. The Phillies could have kept both pitchers for the 2010 season, they opted not to which was a mistake IMO. They basically traded Lee’s 2010 season and two compensation draft picks when he left for free agency basically for a middle reliever.

  124. Len Says:


    Cot’s has Hamels @$19.5 for 2013.

    My bad on Halladay, I thought it was 225 innings in 2013 “OR” 415 in 2012-2013.

    I can’t see anybody taking Lee’s contract because it goes until he’s about 37 with a vesting option the following year. But who knows stranger things have happened.

    I thinking about Joe Blanton in game four of the 2010 NLCS. The PHillies are up 2-1 Blanton throws two wild pitches in the first inning, and they gives up 3 runs and only lasts 4 2/3 innings. Who knows if they still would have made the Oswalt trade in 2010 but that’s a game the Phillies should have won.

  125. Lefty33 Says:

  126. Mike Felber Says:

    I accidentally doubled up on the hyperlink. So no need to moderate that comment: here it is:

    Though that answers no questions about what you say or how you behave Chuck, it is a significant improvement that you do not compound the insults. So not contesting being ad hominem nor doing it again? Much better.

    Len, again you have to at least adjust production for the overall increase in power in the league. Also the shorter season TENDS to work in the favor of some players-Baggy in ‘94, since he had broken his hand & could not have continued. But generally those who are doing much better than usual will tend to regress to the mean, if there were ~ 1/3 more games it likely would have occurred to him.

    You also mentioned his change of appearance. The years you cited implies he had a fairly huge change in appearance within one year. Even those here who said he used PEDs claimed it was done over a few years.

    Len, I have posted much substance on potential for natural muscle gain, including my experience with some outliers who clearly had more potential than the vast majority & got there naturally. These variations exist in every field of human endeavor-& pro athletes in non-endurance sports are more likely to have them. baseball players likely to be 99% + potential in hand eye coordination reaction time.

    Bagwell stayed lean, & his total muscle gain-he was listed at 215 (pretty lean), was “only” 30 lbs. if Chuck is right he started at 185. Even if he started a bit lower it was not much more. Unless you can show me he gained most all of this within a year, it is well within what someone with decent potential could gain in 3 or 4. And consider he had the time off off season especially, & resources to get the best trainers & nutrition available.

    Here is a link i had posted before. I doubt you will have any reason to dispute any of this, & these various models for potential growth are more CONSERVATIVE than many others-see the comments below. Show me how Bagwell’s #s are beyond them in terms of rate of growth. They are not at all. The size he reached MAY be a little above what some of the models predict he could achieve. But that depends upon what his body fat level was.

    And when you have muscle folks often assume you are leaner than you are. Anyway there are a small % of mostly all large framed individuals who will exceed these #s. Though I doubt that Bagwell is a big outlier.

    God is in the details. You need to engage the claims & research of those with years in the field AND see what the real rate of growth of a guy was to make any supposition about whether he was likely dirty.

  127. Chuck Says:

    “Though that answers no questions about what you say or how you behave Chuck, it is a significant improvement that you do not compound the insults. So not contesting being ad hominem nor doing it again? Much better.”

    Because I didn’t read your comment.

  128. Chuck Says:

    Indians DFA Johnny Damon

    Reds DFA Andrew Brackman (and,sadly) Mike Costanzo

    Kurt Suzuki traded to Nationals.

  129. Len Says:


    Bagwell HR transformation was drastic and fast, that’s why it’s suspicious. If just weight training alone could transform a Wally Joyner, Mark Grace type of player into Jimmie Foxx why wouldn’t everybody do it?

    Lets just look at his home ballpark, the Astrodome, one of the worst HR hitting places in the majors. This way other new ballparks don’t factor into the story.

    Home splits from the Astrodome from 1991-1993 in which he hit 23 home runs in 835 at bats for a ratio of 2.75 home runs per 100 at bats.

    OK, in 1994 at home he hit 23 home runs in 201 at bats for a ratio of 11.44 home runs per 100 at bats!! He equaled his career total in the Astrodome in just 1/4 of the at bats?? There was no change to the Astrodome etc, so how do you explain that? Again this is coming from a guy who hit 8 home runs in about 800 at bats in the minors.

    His home split in the Astrodome from 1994-1999 (last year of the Astrodome) Bagwell hit 103 home runs in 1489 at bats for a ratio of 6.91 home runs per 100 at bats. At age 26 he more than doubled his Home run rate playing in one of the worst HR hitting parks in baseball.

    He went from looking like a shorter version of Wally Joyner/Mark Grace to looking like Daryl Johnston in a few years.

    That’s just from weight lifting with no help from steriods or peds? He goes from being a minor league first baseman with no Home Run power to one of the great Home Run hitting first basemen in baseball history?

  130. John Says:

    I stand corrected, I thought that was a 3-way deal.

  131. Len Says:

    I should check that in that Bagwell played mostly 3b in the minors.

  132. Len Says:


    no biggie. The story at the time was that the Lee trade was made to replenish the Phillies farm system after the Halladay trade.

  133. Mike Felber Says:

    So you just avoided all the issues, including of how you make personal & stereotypical attacks absent attention to detail. And now you regress to not engaging at all. Well, it is not healthy, except for you are not adding insult to injury. It is not learning how to be peaceful & respectful with others who treat you decently, but at least you are not continuing to be mean & petty. OK,kinda sad, but if that is the best you are willing to do, you at least create no more bad karma.

  134. John Says:

    Bad karma? Really?

  135. Chuck Says:

    No, Mike, I’m just tired of your self-righteous preaching.

    Talking to you is like talking to a lamp post.

  136. Mike Felber Says:

    Len, I appreciate your questions, but you have effectively repeated your case without addressing any of mine. Please do follow & respond so we are not both wasting time repeating ourselves or talking at cross purposes.

    1) I said that you must adjust the increase in HR rates for the increase across baseball in the exact years Bagwell’s production swelled. Though it would still be a big increase, it would be less so.

    2) This I did not say before, but when you get this rate, is it really that no hitters who are clean made such progress? We can look case by case. And you do admit that even without PEDs, modern weight training could help SOME inprove their production more than before, right? Then it is a matter of looking at what other guys did clean.

    3) YOU brought up his increase in size. My post was almost entirely about that, & you said nothing about my claim that a) he did not do all the growth within a year, as all here have acknowledged & your dates see to suggest, Have you wholly abandoned that argument?

    b) His total increase in muscular size over a few years is easily within what expert theoretical models described at length in the link suggest. Some are based on observation & experience too. Read it & see if you can disagree. But whether just looking online or consult with folks like me who have lifted for years, these measures-more conservative than what some presume can be achieved naturally-are widely accepted!

  137. Mike Felber Says:

    You addressed virtually no substance PLUS avoid dealing with your own nasty side. And when I CALL you on that, the best you can say is “I will ignore all, since youy are self-righteous”?

    Lamp post? I address all you say painstakingly, acknowledge what i think is true. You avoid much of what i say completely! Which is like a lamp post?

    John, I am using Karma in the broad & popularly understood sense of causing more problems & ill will. I am not suggesting that this will haunt CHUCK THROUGH ENDLESS REINCARNATIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

    The caps were an accident I will keep for amusement. ;-)

  138. Chuck Says:

    I’ve addressed everything you’ve said, Mike, the problem I have is continually repeating myself.

    I’m done.

    Keep the conversation to baseball and stop the lecturing, and we’ll be fine.

  139. Chuck Says:

    “dealing with your own nasty side”

    Here’s a tip…try being the solution instead of the cause.

  140. Mike Felber Says:

    Show me any instance, ever, of me being nasty. This is your own lazy projection. If someone calls others names & mocks them as if they were a mean stereotype, condemning that conduct is not nasty, that would be blaming the victim.

    I can outline what you did NOT address, but chief amongst this is your own hostile conduct. What you repeat I addressed, you just do not listen well. This happens when you assume a whole bunch of absurd things like who is at my gym, what they do, how they train, how they can fight-things you know precisely ze4ro about.

    We all talk about other things, you engaged me on this, & it is sport. We will be fine if you do not make provocative statements & then not engage any details, especially if you do not engage in jejune “jockery” I defined above. And speaking of above, you should be above that after leaving adolescence.

  141. Chuck Says:

    I never said you were nasty.

    See what I mean?

    Seriously, do me a favor…stop replying.

  142. Chuck Says:

    “but chief amongst this is your own hostile conduct”

    Who the fuck are you to think I owe you anything?

    You got some big ones Michael.

  143. Chuck Says:

    Tigers DFA’d Don Kelly.

    Who also happens to be Jim Leyland’s son-in-law.

  144. Chuck Says:

    OK, Mike, one more..this is buggin’ me.

    I know for a fact Bagwell used, two different people who don’t know each other relayed PERSONAL EYEWITNESS accounts of more than one of these individuals was a teammate.

    The issue I have isn’t so much whether you believe it or not, or even so much your self-centered arrogance that you know everything about nutrition and weight training that leads you to believe his body change could be possible.

    What purpose would there be for me to tell you?

    The information can’t benefit you in any why the woody over having to see proof?

    You wouldn’t know Jeff Bagwell if he was standing next to you at Starbucks, so I don’t get it.

  145. Chuck Says:

    Phillies traded Joe Blanton to the Dodgers for a PTBNL.

    Within the next hour, every convenience store within a mile of Lefty’s house will be out of Yeungling.

  146. Raul Says:

    Ah. Now that I’m back on the east coast, I can get Yuengling again.

    Will pick up a 12 pack later.
    Any other recommendations?

  147. Lefty33 Says:

    @145 – I was going to say LOL, except that I’m not laughing.

    It’s more of a feeling of serenity and relief.

    Kind of like taking a shit after you’ve been constipated, for almost three years.

  148. Raul Says:

    Over his last 12 starts, Yu Darvish is 6-6 with a 5.62 ERA.

    I think I said this would happen because of his dilly-dallying around the goddamn strike zone.

    and Mr John Bowen called me crazy.

  149. John Says:

    As I recall, I specifically agreed with you on that one.

    Where I disagreed was that he would suck because he’s Japanese, and therefore destined to be Dice-K 2.0.

  150. Raul Says:

    Point taken

  151. Mike Felber Says:

    You owe everyone decency Chuck. Your profane response is sad. So I pay attention to details. When you said:

    “dealing with your own nasty side”

    Here’s a tip…try being the solution instead of the cause.

    Maybe you meant that I caused you to be nasty. That is the only logical interpretation besides that you are indicating I am nasty. I was not mean or ad hominem to you-not that would excuse it. Conservatives are right in some cases, such as about taking responsibility for our own behavior, & blaming others for our own issues is wrong.

    Chuck, you do not pay much attention often bro. It is just the truth.

    Have I ever asked you to disclose your sources? recall when you went berserker with the whoie Clemente-gate (that one is to tweak Raul), saying I will send you this info but I will need to have your murdered if you reveal where it came from?

    Well that was bat bleep insane, but there to I never asked you to reveal private information. And I never doubted your HONESTY. Whether the info is correct, I cannot know. And it would be irresponsible for me to say i can know either way. Capiche?

    Would not know Baggy if…Even if that was true, it would be irrelevant. Here is an indication of how your thought process is jacked up Chuck:

    WHY if I make specific, & as yet wholly unaddressed, claims about what is possible in gaining muscular weight, having read much about it & litfed for years…

    WHY is that remotely “arrogant”? You show no inclination or ability to address the nitty gritty of the issue, yet I do not call you arrogant for disagreeing.

    And “self centered” does not remotely apply. I just say that this weight gain is very possible-not even that others like him COULD have used PEDs: & can point to numerous folks that gained as much or more clean in that time frame-

    Yet this simple belief gets your knickers in a twist? WHY must this be upsetting to you? It is a mere, interesting, no Ego need be involved, academic questions.

  152. Raul Says:

    Mike, Mike, Mike…

    Why do you keep on with Chuck? Whatever beef you two may have with each other, and I am not getting involved, one thing does seem clear to me:

    He. Does. Not. Give. A. Shit.

    So let’s keep it moving.

  153. Brautigan Says:

    Has there ever been a Japanese pitcher since the days of Masanori Murakami that pitched consistently for an extended period of time. Outside of Kazuhiro Sasaki (whose career spanned 3.5 seasons), I cannot think of one. So, yeah, I figured Yu Darvish might get a good season or two in, but history has shown that a prolonged, consistently good career is unlikely.

  154. Mike Felber Says:

    So what Raul? You did get involved by trying to tell me to keep it moving. Why tell me rather than him? He is the one who chooses to mention olf tropes like Bagwell juicing, or insults to long gone Shaun. Then when i address what he says rationally & politely, he gets offended by a mere difference of opinion.

    That is a kind of caring, a negative one of senseless sensitivity.

    And then he projects some kinds of silly negative assumptions upon those who disagree. Like i even asked, ever, to hear who told him private info about bagwell or others. Or that just daring to dagree with him, citing mutiple sources, about clearly established information about how fast someone can put on bulk clean meanes me self centered & arrogant.

    It makes not a whit of sense, it is a psychodrama.

    But it would be more logical, since you choose to be involved, to tell HIM to keep it moving. He is the operating in a contentious & uinsulting way.

    So I will resist the temptation to tell you to keep it moving to. But realize above I just answered a specific question he asked me. When he believed I cared to ask, iromically, to heaqr who told him what about Bagwell.

    I do not apologize for being rational, responsive & polite Raul. Your intervention is misplaced.

  155. Raul Says:

    How many times do you need to argue with someone before you realize that it’s not worth arguing with that person?

  156. Mike Felber Says:

    A bit presumptuous Raul. If I am correct about what I say above, which I believe you tacitly acknowledge by not contesting any details, if you should call anyone out, it would be Chuck. But you have thrown your lot in with him, so psychologically you cannot do that.

    And more subtlety, it is worth it. Some like he have gotten less aggressive over time, even asked if he had grown over a few years here. It is worth opposing illogical ideas, & projecting beliefs or desires (like for inside info) upon me. As long as one does not mind & does not get personally triggered/upset. I am fine!

    This martyrdom will drive me directly to Buddhahood, no need to pass go nor collect $200, free of the Wheel of Samsara/cycle of birth & death/suffering into sweeeeeet liberating Nirvana. And not false freedom the obtained by Kobain. ;-)

    Kidding on last paragraph.

  157. Raul Says:

    I haven’t thrown my lot with anyone.

    I didn’t dispute or address anything you said because I don’t care. I posted my opinion on Bagwell already.

    Let’s talk about something else.

  158. John Says:


    Why is AJ Burnett good all of a sudden?

  159. Len Says:


    I don’t think A.J. Burnett’s really any better this year than he was when he pitched with the Jays or that last year with the Marlins or that first year with the Yankees. He’s getting good run support this year, 4.7 runs per start which is 18th/70 pitchers in the N.L. I think it helps that he’s pitching in a pitcher’s park in the N.L. central after all those years in hitter’s parks in the A.L. East. The biggest difference this year is that he’s walking fewer people. He’s at 2.7 BB/9 which is 1 full walk less than his career average (3.7).

    He was God-awful for the Yankees the last two years so he turned himself around.

    His BB/9 and Whip and his HR/9 have dropped but so has his K/9. He’s 31st in K/9, 29th in K’s and 28th in K/BB which isn’t great. Other than Wins he’s not in the top 10 in any other pitching category.

    I think he’s a little bit overrated this year because of his win total. He’s still been a good pitcher though, 11th in ERA, 11 in H/9, 15th in Whip, 18th in HR/9 and 18th in ERA+, probably one of the top 20 pitchers in the N.L. this year.

  160. Mike Felber Says:

    Sorry, you have. “lot” refers to your alliances, otherwise you logically you would call Chuck out to shut-uppa-his-face before me, since he brought up the subject, was angry when i was not about mere disagreement, profane, & personal.

    Something else? OK, are you enjoying NYC, taking advantage of its (often free) culture & ‘hoods, eating healthy, talking to grrrls?

  161. Bob Says:

    So my mother’s birthf

    I know it is early August, but Michael Phelps is your Sportsperson of the Year. Any takers?

  162. Bob Says:

    I should not post while hungover.

  163. John Says:

    “I think he’s a little bit overrated this year because of his win total. He’s still been a good pitcher though, 11th in ERA, 11 in H/9, 15th in Whip, 18th in HR/9 and 18th in ERA+, probably one of the top 20 pitchers in the N.L. this year.”

    Right, he’s not up for a Cy Young or anything, but he had some legendarily bad years for the Yankees. Two of the worst 6 seasons by a Yankee pitcher, ever.

    His walks and hits are both down about 1-1.5 per game. The strikeouts aren’t really back.

    He plays on a much better overall defensive club, and is in a much easier division which are definitely major contributing factors.

  164. Len Says:

    @John 163,

    His won/loss record in 2010-2011 (21-26) isn’t even reflective as to how bad he pitched. He had good run support in ‘10 and mediocre run support in ‘11 which masked some of his struggles. If he had poor run support in ‘10 his record would look much worse. He had a 5.20 ERA and a 1.472 Whip and a 1.98 K/BB ratio from 2010-2011 which is just plain awful.

    I think the key is that he’s limiting his walks this year. The thing that’s odd about him is that his K/9 ratio is low this year (7.4). His career average is 8.2. I would have thought his K’s would have gone up pitching in the N.L.

    Also the Pirates are scoring 4.15 runs per game this year and Burnett is getting 4.7 runs per game. I would think his runs per game would lower as the season goes on.

    The Pirates are an odd team in that so much of their success depends on one position player (McCutchen) having an outstanding season. I couldn’t think of a playoff team off the top of my that depended so much on just one player. Even the 2006 Cardinals had Carpenter and Rolen to go along with Pujols.

    It’s going to be interesting if the Pirates meet the Braves in a one game wild card playoff because the Braves starting pitching hasn’t been great since Beachy got hurt. Tommy Hanson has a good w/l record but that’s an apparition based on his crazy 5.4 runs per game in support which is 3rd out 70 in the N.L. Hanson has a 4.29 ERA which is 45th out of 55 qualifiers in the N.L. and a 1.44 Whip which is 52 out of 55 qualifiers in the N.L. The Braves would probably have to go with Tim Hudson.

  165. John Says:

    Don’t worry, Len – I don’t even pretend to look at W/L record, so don’t worry about that.

  166. Len Says:


    That Burnett contract with the Yankees is even more crazy in retrospect. They gave Burnett $82 million for 5 years for his ages 32-37 seasons. I looked at Cot’s baseball contracts and I didn’t even realize that the Yankees are paying the Pirates $11.5 million this year and $8.5 million next year for Burnett’s contract, crazy. And the Astros are paying the Pirates $10 million over the next 3 years for Wandy Rodriguez.

  167. Raul Says:

    The Yankees operate on a different level from everyone else.

    And yes, that contract was terrible. But they got a World Series title out of it.
    And with a franchise where winning is everything, that does mitigate the crappy contract somewhat — whether you agree or not.

  168. Len Says:


    Yeah, the Yankees operate on a different level. They could eat a contract like that and move on.

    He had a good 2009 season but I thought he was better in the post-season. He pitched to a 5.31 ERA and a 1-1 record. He had a good game against Pedro in the 2009 WS but was terrible in game 5. He was pretty good in the AlDS but had a no decision. He was pretty good in game 2 against the Angels but had no decision. Then he was awful in game 5 of that AlCS.

  169. John Says:

    The Yankees were under a lot of pressure to win after 2008, and signed 3 big deals to try and make up for it, which they did in 2009.

    Sabathia’s deal has been worth it. Texeira’s deal has not, but he’s at least been a constant power contributor. Burnett’s deal was a bust, but he was above average in the year that they won the World Series.

    All in all, it worked out okay for them.

  170. Chuck Says:


    Royals DFA’d Yuniesky Betancourt…wherever you are Cameron, hopefully that generated a smile.

    “Right, he’s not up for a Cy Young or anything, but he had some legendarily bad years for the Yankees. Two of the worst 6 seasons by a Yankee pitcher, ever”.

    And yet, yesterday he became the third Pirates’ pitcher in franchise history to record 14 wins in 20 or fewer starts, joining Dock Ellis and some dude from 1920.

    Burnett has a shitload of talent, his problem, like that of Javier Vazquez, is between his ears.

    AJ had a long track record of good but inconsistent performances in small markets, he was ten games over .500 with an ERA around four and a half.

    He didn’t deserve his contract for sure, especially after the Yanks signed Sabathia.

    Talent wise he’s a consistent mid-to back end rotation and on his best day wasn’t worth the a situation like Pittsburgh where no one gives a shit, he’s an ace.

  171. Chuck Says:

    Curtis Granderson did not strike out yesterday, breaking a franchise record-tying streak of six consecutive multiple strikeout games held by two pitchers.

    Granderson’s 130 strikeouts are third in the AL behind Adam Dunn and Carlos Pena, but would lead the NL by four.

    Granderson has a $15 million team option for does Robinson Cano.

    Assuming the Yankees pick up their options, Granderson will be a free agent entering his age 33 season, Cano his age 31.

    I’m giving neither more than five years and no more than $20 annually..especially with the escalating penalty structure in the new CBA.

    There’s an old scouting saying that “second baseman are made, not born”, and if age becomes an issue Cano could likely move to third or LF, whereas Granderson is limited to where he is.

    So, while Austin Jackson is busy building up an All-Star career and Ian Kennedy is trying to AGAIN win 20 games, a year from now Granderson is trade bait.

    Nice job, Cashman…trade fail.

  172. John Says:

    “I’m giving neither more than five years and no more than $20 annually..especially with the escalating penalty structure in the new CBA.”

    That’s about what I try and give Cano, maybe throw on a big option. No way I give that to a 33 year old Granderson.

  173. Chuck Says:

    I agree..four or five years then a couple of team friendly options.

  174. Raul Says:

    They could offer Cano a 5 year deal, front loaded.
    Or give him a deal that allows him to opt out in the middle of it, similar to what Sabathia got.

  175. Raul Says:

    Local Sam’s Club had a case of Yuengling for $20. It’s a good day.

  176. Lefty33 Says:

    That’s a great pick up at Sam’s.

    I would love to be able to buy beer in a Sam’s Club but here in PA it’s still 1920 and I have to make a special trip to either a beer distributor for a case or to one of the handful of supermarkets which started carrying beer 3-4 years ago.

  177. Brautigan Says:

    In Portland, we have as many breweries as most towns have bars. Yup, we have it rough here in P-town. (Well, except we have no baseball, so it really is rough).

  178. Raul Says:

    I guess it’s a pain sometimes in Pennsylvania. But I’m sure you get used to it.

    So let me get this straight: the Phillies not only gave Cliff Lee an insane contract, but they also included a no-trade clause that included 21 teams???

    Maybe they’re buying his toilet paper too.

  179. Chuck Says:

    Back in the day, when “air travel” meant falling out of a tree, Coors was like wasn’t a national product.

    As a restauranteur with a business license, I could get it from a “local” distributor..meaning I had to drive 70 miles to the closest location in Brewster, New York.

    I could only buy kegs..and had a limit, so we’d rent a U-Haul and drive down and fill the sucker up.

    Before leaving, we’d pass the word we were taking a roadie, and anyone interested could place an order.

    We’d sell cases out the back of the truck for three or four times what we paid.

    Covered the gas, cost of the truck (which I wrote off anyway) and made a nice donation to my personal savings account.

    What we used at the bar was marked up too, so double-whammy.

  180. Raul Says:

    Back in those days beer was probably like 50 cents a pop.

    Throw in some 10-cent wings promotion at some backwater town on Tuesday nights, and Chuck’s hillbilly customers were getting plastered for $20.

  181. Chuck Says:


    First of all, in Connecticut we don’t do no stinkin’ wings. Thursday was happy hour day and we’d but out a cheap little buffet. Those little miniature hot dogs in BBQ sauce, meatball marinara, pasta and potato salad and garlic bread. For free.

    For three bucks, you could get a plate of mini-sliders with seasoned fries or a shrimp cocktail.

    As far as the beer goes, if memory serves, a 12 oz draft was 75 cents.

  182. Chuck Says:

    Having a mini-debate with Joe Delgrippo.

    If we could turn back time, knowing what we do now..would the Yankees still make the Curtis Granderson trade?

    I said no.

  183. Chuck Says:

    On Twitter, Intentional Talk asked for suggestions for presents for Mike Trout on his 21st birthday.

    I suggested a “Bryce Who” tee shirt.

    They were teammates in the AFL and didn’t get along.

  184. Raul Says:

    Granderson had an MVP-ish year in 2011. That alone kinda makes the trade worth it.

    The problem is that Granderson’s 2011 was a wash with Ian Kennedy’s 2011.

    Whatever Austin Jackson does, for me the real issue with the Granderson trade is that the Yankees lost Kennedy.
    I thought Jackson could be as valuable as Granderson for a lot less money though.

    The question I have is what will this team look like in 5 years?

  185. Raul Says:

    For Mike Trout to be as good as he is, as young as he is, and with all the talented and experienced players on that team???


  186. Patrick Says:

    Mike Trout reminds me of Fred Lynn with speed. I hate to say it but Trout is similar to young Mickey Mantle. If he avoids the sprinkler heads he should be a HOFer.

    Vacation recap; My nephew is married. I’m broke. Wrigley is cool and the food was the best I’ve had at a ballpark until….. Miller Park is very cool and I had the best beef brisket sandwich ever. Not even the best ballpark food ever. It was beyond that. It was like a beef brisket strip club. The more $1’s I laid down, the thicker the sandwich got, all layered in horseradish sauce. It took the dude about 5 minutes to make my sandwich. I miss it.

  187. Chuck Says:

    I worked for the Brewers in spring training Patrick..most of the guys work full time in Milwaukee..wish I knew you were going..could have gotten you some good seats.

    Fred Lynn should have been a HOFer….injuries and head case.

    Trout’s speed is off the charts.

    Compared to him, Vince Coleman is a tank.

    Lynn could run.

  188. Patrick Says:

    They say Mantle was off the charts too but he was limping around by the time we got to see him.

    Lynn could run, but Trout has big time wheels.

    Chuck, I had no idea you worked with the Brewers. We actually had great seats, aisle seats, 3rd row by where the left field foul line meets the seats. Great seats for us anyway. Brewers won 10-1 and Corey Hart hit a bomb so we got to see the slide in action. We played poker at the Indian casino next door and won a couple hundred so we had fun in Milwaukee.

    Darwin Barney, the guy I was picking on about him being the 9th best WAR guy, hit a 400 foot line drive HR @ Wrigley the day we were there. 14-4 Cubs victory with a 9 run 5th, Rizzo 3 run HR too, then they traded everyone after the game!

    I gained 6 lbs upgrading from cheeseburgers to brisket sandwiches and italian beef and sausage hoagies.

    I saw Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath on Friday. They were playing to a backing track but I haven’t seen it mentioned yet. Am I the only one who noticed the drummer didn’t have 6 arms?

  189. John Says:

    Sounds like you had an awesome time, Patrick – glad Potawatomi was good to you!

    I’m off to see my first MLB game of the year – Reds @ Brewers. Unfortunately, all I had in Charleston was the Yankees A-ball affiliate, the Charleston River Dogs (which is a lot of fun in its own right).

    I’ll probably get to Nats Park for a game next week, and hopefully hit up Citi Field and/or Yankee Stadium in September while I’m stationed in CT. I’ll also probably get to Fenway again – my cousin’s husband’s dad knows one of the minor owners and can hook me up.

  190. Patrick Says:

    John, we did have a great time, of those fields you’ve mentioned, I’ve only been to the Yankees. Have fun and check out the brisket guy at Miller! (he also carves turkey)

    Potawatomi! Thanks. We were at the $1-2 no limit table. We bought in for the minimum $100 but the max was $300 and most sat with that. They were very aggressive so we were able to slow play them a few times. Lucky we caught some hands because they made you pay to see the flop.

  191. Chuck Says:

    Mantle played 17 years in the majors on one leg.

    To this day, he’s the fastest player clocked to first base from the LH batters box.

    My brother was in the Navy and was stationed in Charleston when he was discharged.

    Not knowing any better, he stayed there.

    The old joke about Charleston is most of the residents there were Navy discharges who were too stupid to realize the world is much bigger.

  192. Patrick Says:

    You’re right about Lynn. When you watched him you thought Hall of Famer. His first season was his best. He fared better than Joe Charboneau anyway!

    This could be Trout’s best season ever because let’s face it, you can’t get much better.

  193. Patrick Says:

    Remember the disco tune “Go, Go, Joe Charboneau”? That would end anyone’s career. :-)

  194. Chuck Says:

    ” We actually had great seats, aisle seats, 3rd row by where the left field foul line meets the seats”

    Family section, between home and Brewers dugout.

    Close enough to talk to whomever was in the on-deck circle.

  195. Chuck Says:

    Trout very well could be the next Charbonneau.

    He could also very well be the next Griffey Jr.

    Odds are on #1.

  196. Chuck Says:

    Bryce Harper could be the next Shaun Abner.

    He could also be the next Mike Trout.


  197. John Says:

    @191, I just don’t get it about Charleston. It’s a place that peaked in 1860. Now there’s a Boeing plant there, and other than that it’s an entire town that basically subsists off old money (rich families who used to own other families), and rich families who own beach-front property outside the city and come in for shopping/tourism.

    That’s it. That’s what’s keeping that place going, if you can call it going. I’ve never seen so many people who are not in any hurry to do anything (maybe it’s the heat?).

    Certainly not an awful place to be stationed for a year when you don’t get much time off, but it gets old in a hurry.

  198. Chuck Says:

    The Navy screwed him over, so I don’t have anything complimentary to say about them.

  199. Lefty33 Says:

    “So let me get this straight: the Phillies not only gave Cliff Lee an insane contract, but they also included a no-trade clause that included 21 teams???”

    That’s actually something that started with Utley and since then every big guy they have signed/re-signed or traded for (Halladay, Rollins, Lee, Howard, and maybe even Papelbon) have a clause in their contract that says the Phillies automatically have to extended whatever the best no trade protection they’ve offered to one guy to all players effected.

    So when Howard signed his extension and got more teams on his no trade list that bumped up Utley’s total automatically. When they Halladay signed his extension that bumped up Howard and Utley’s total to where it is now and Lee and Papelbon got matches on this because the Phillies do not give out no trade clauses anymore after Wade fucked them royally by giving them out to everybody in the ’90s but they will give out partials to everybody.

    Great idea at the time, but it’s a real handcuff now.

    “I guess it’s a pain sometimes in Pennsylvania. But I’m sure you get used to it.”

    PA has been trying to privatize the liquor store system for the last 50 years and no Gov. whether (D) or (R) can break the PLCB’s unionized entitlement system.

    Maybe things will change in my kids lifetimes but I’m not holding my breath for it to happen anytime soon.

  200. Chuck Says:

    I remember the night we moved to PA…it literally took us two hours to buy a couple sixers.

    “You buy beer at a bar”?

    No shit?

  201. Chuck Says:

    I believe with 95% certainty Philly is where Lee wanted to go all along, this big “mystery” team is bullshit.

    It should be noted however that neither the Yankees nor the Rangers would discuss a no-trade with him, which Lee said was a factor in where he ended up.

  202. Bob Says:

    John, when you come to Ct. tell me. I owe yoou a 6-pack. And Chuck, you coming East soon. Come Saturday,I will be back.

  203. Chuck Says:

    Not planning on it, Bob.

  204. Brautigan Says:

    Matt Anderson. THAT Matt Anderson?

  205. John Says:

    “which Lee said was a factor in where he ended up.”

    After 3 trades in 18 months, hard to blame him.

  206. John Says:

    Mike Fiers was awesome today. Perfect through 6, made it through the 8th. Roenicke came out to fetch him when he was visibly struggling in the 8th, but decided to leave him in, presumably after realizing that he was employing basically the worst bullpen ever assembled.

  207. Len Says:

    It’s amazing to think what Trout’s numbers would look like if he’d played in the majors for the full month of April? He’s scored 86 runs in 87 games?? that’s insane, that’s a Rickey Henderson circa 1985 pace. He’s stolen 36 bases in 39 attempts for a 92% success rate. He’s leading the A.L in both runs scored and stolen bases and he’s only played 87 games! Plus Trout is leading the A.L. in batting average and hitting .348/.411/.598.

    He’s showing more power than Lynn in his rookie season. Lynn hit 21 homers in 528 at bats for a rate of 3.97 HR per 100 at bats. Trout has hit 19 homers in 353 at bats for a rate of 5.38 per 100 at bat.

    As far as speed it’s not even close, Lynn was 10/15 in stolen base attempts, Trout is 36/39.

  208. Mike Felber Says:

    I love brisket of beef Patrick, with horseradish (& a whole grain roll ideally) even better! I’ll skip the sausage, turkey is “eh”.

    So now we see Chuck’s issue w/”Navy man” John. It is the institution + Sm, too much for him to take. ;-)

    Dick Allen had likely the best rookie season ever. Though most in the know believe he should be i9n the HOF, he had internal issues, also w/Phillie fans,& never attained his true potential. Trout will be an interesting case to watch. His power & speed combo is remarkable, especially (likely) clean.

  209. Raul Says:

    The Athletics won their 59th game of the season.
    In 2011, they won 74.

  210. Chuck Says:

    “It is the institution + Sm, too much for him to take”

    My father and brother were in the Navy..I was not, nor am I into S&M.

    Whatever floats your boat is up to you.

  211. Mike Felber Says:

    Ah huh, sure you thought I meant S & M.

    but we can agree on the brisket. Mom used to make it with a separate tureen of marinated cooked vegetables, peppers tomatos 7 onions in their own juices to slather on. My sister in law is so sweet, but I could not get with the southern style coke a cola marinated brisket.

    Feel free to convert that into brisket ala coke snorted between the white lines though!

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