Point/Counterpoint: What Does Red Sox Roster Purging Say for Valentine’s Future?

by Chuck

Well, it’s been an interesting last couple of days to say the least. The stunning  deal pulled off by the Dodgers and Red Sox on Saturday was a shocker in more ways than just the number of players involved.

Picture this;

1) It was a waiver deal.

The way waiver claims work after the trading deadline is the team’s in your league have first rights, meaning all four players would have had to go through all American League teams first. Then, it’s reverse order of standings in the National League, for all of them to end up being claimed by the same team.

2) Carl Crawford had Tommy John surgery last week and likely won’t be ready for the start of the season.

3) The deal ended up adding a quarter of a billion dollars to the Dodgers’ payroll; even if Boston sends some cash to Los Angeles, it’s still more of a commitment on three players than the combined payrolls of more than half the other teams in baseball.

Now that it’s literally a done deal, where does this leave the Red Sox?

Josh Beckett was the ring-leader of last year’s infamous “Chickengate”.

He’s gone.

Kelly Shoppach and Adrian Gonzalez were rumored to be behind the secret text messages to owner John Henry and GM Ben Cherington regarding the player’s growing dislike and lack of respect for manager Bobby Valentine.

They are both gone.

Both Kevin Youkilis and David Ortiz have reputations as notorious clubhouse lawyers…Youkilis is in Chicago and the Sox announced yesterday that Ortiz will not be activated from the DL and has been shut down for the season.

There’s an old saying that says an organization is only “as strong as it’s weakest link”.

Well, the Red Sox chain lost a few links over the past month or so, leaving them in the precarious and not so enviable position of having to replace them before next March.

Like on a  bicycle chain, the strongest link is the one that holds the lock or key, in sports the manager or coach is that link. It’s pretty obvious, at least until now, that the hiring of Valentine may not have been the best choice.

But over the past thirty days or so, the Red Sox have cut loose what they perceived to be the weakest links against Valentine, leading some to believe he will be back next year.

But there is another thought process in place here, that the Red Sox all along have decided Valentine will not be back, and his replacement is someone who is very familiar with the inner workings of the organization and in his own right one of the most respected individuals to ever wear the uniform.

I’m talking about Jason Varitek.

As the former captain, Varitek was the leader of the team, especially in the clubhouse. He knows drinking beer during a game is wrong, but it would have been difficult even for him to confront a friend and teammate.

We’ve all been in a similar situation. A co-worker with the same experience gets a promotion and is now your boss; that would go over about as well as a bad hop groundball to the manpiece.

The best thing to do in that situation is to remove any possible remaining issues that may undermine whatever future foundation you are trying to build.

So, here’s the question.

Was the roster purging an indication of Valentine returning next year, or did it set the stage for the possibility of bring in someone with strong organizational ties, like a Jason Varitek?

Have at it.

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586 Responses to “Point/Counterpoint: What Does Red Sox Roster Purging Say for Valentine’s Future?”

  1. John Says:

    I don’t think the roster purging had much to do with Valentine at all. They’ll make their decision on him one way or another, but the Red Sox really just wanted to push eject on the Crawford and Beckett deals. Even old Ned isn’t dumb enough to just take those on, so the price of doing business was Adrian Gonzalez, which was an alright deal even if his power has been down this season.

    Either that, or Coletti really wanted Nick Punto.

    As for Valentine? I think he’s out regardless.

  2. JIm Says:

    Valentine is toast regardless and we can expect an announcement a few days after the end of the season. The house cleaning was pure and simple a salary dump, irrespective of who the manager will be. For the Dodgers, taking Beckett and Crawford was the cost of getting Gonzales.

    Tek as manager of the RS, someday yes, but not now. Chuck your point is well taken that a single player could not have done anything to stop chickengate and the attendant foolishness of last season. But he was in that club house and team captain and there is no evidence that he did anything but acquiesce to what was going on.

    As to who the RS may pursue, the evergreen choice is John Farrell, but I’m wondering about Mike Scioscia if he’s gassed by the Angels

  3. Chuck Says:

    Wouldn’t Farrell also have to be gassed?

  4. JIm Says:

    Yes, Farrell would need to be fired or the RS would need to work a deal with the Jays. He is under contract through the 2013 season, but he is still the most frequently mentioned name in discussing future RS managers.

  5. John Says:

    I’m watching Sunday Night Baseball, Giants and Braves.

    As has been the tune this season, Tim Lincecum gave up 2 runs in the first and 3 through 5.

    Michael Bourn running on him isn’t even fair. Bourn has snagged two bases (leading to runs, I might add) with Heyward nabbing one to make Lincecum 0 for 18 at preventing SB’s on the year. His delivery is just too slow. And when you’re allowing as many base-runners as he is, you’ve got to find a way to keep them close.

  6. Raul Says:

    If this is all a play to get Varitek in there next year, I’ll be surprised.

    I think this trend of hiring young guys with no experience is becoming the “Moneyball” of this era.

    Sure, it may work for a while in some cities but ultimately you should hire someone who knows what he is doing.
    I’m also disappointed that throughout all this, Willie Randolph can’t get a call??? With respect to Robin Ventura and others, I don’t think they are better qualified.

  7. Chuck Says:

    Apparently I’m not as smart as I thought..Joel Sherman listed Varitek as a possibility in his August 17th column.

    Damn.

    While I still believe he’s gone after the season, the odds of him staying are higher than they were last Thursday.

  8. Chuck Says:

    Jesus Montero’s OBP is .302.

    Just thought I’d mention that.

  9. Raul Says:

    Montero will have to step it up big time in 2013.

    The Mariners traded Cliff Lee for Justin Smoak.
    They traded Pineda and Campos for Montero.
    They signed Chone Figgins.

    I mean, this has to look pretty bad for Jack Z, right?

  10. Chuck Says:

    I’m not surprised at all by what Montero’s done so far, and honestly I don’t think the Mariners are either, otherwise they wouldn’t have drafted a catcher in the first round this year.

    Smoak, on the other hand is. I never thought he’d be a big HR guy (swing too flat), especially in Seattle, but I thought he’d bet a better hitter overall.

    The Pineda/Campos side hasn’t worked out all that well either, but like I’ve said before..sometimes what you get back isn’t as important as what you give up.

  11. Raul Says:

    True. Pineda was arrested for DUI. Not the smartest kid around. And if he shows up overweight, it reflects poorly on his commitment and on the Yankees (they let Joba show up overweight for years).

    The Campos kid is young and has injuries but NY has to push him to let him learn. They can’t pull him after 4 innings like they constantly did with Banuelos.

  12. Chuck Says:

    The Yanks got two mid to high ceiling pitchers for a guy who never would have played regularly for them.

    Even if neither guy turns into anything more than a bottom starter or middle reliever, the Yanks still win the deal by a landslide.

    A year from now, Mike Zunino will be the Mariners’ everyday catcher and some combination of Nick Franklin/Mike Carp/Smoak will be the first base/DH combo.

    Which means at his current level of production Montero will be in Tacoma.

  13. Chuck Says:

    Montero lost the backup job last year to Frankie Cervelli..who lost the backup job this year to I have no idea.

    Where is Cervelli now..the backup in Scranton.

  14. Bob Says:

    Jack Z has three young pitchers in the minors, plus he retained Felix (Who may get an extension.) They have Ryan at SS. I would not be surprised to see Montero traded for a 3rd or 4th guy in the pen, if the Mariners think Zunino will be ready by June 1st of next season.

  15. Raul Says:

    It would be quite an embarrassment to trade Campos and Pineda for Montero…only to spin Montero a year later for Chad Gaudin.

  16. Bob Says:

    Or be an act of bravery in that he is willing to acknowledge a sunk cost, if that is how they view him.

  17. Lefty33 Says:

    “Was the roster purging an indication of Valentine returning next year, or did it set the stage for the possibility of bring in someone with strong organizational ties, like a Jason Varitek?”

    Numerous media reports have painted Cherington out to be nothing more than a puppet GM with Henry and Lucchino being the ones micromanaging things since Theo left.

    Cherrington very publicly wanted Dale Sveum to be Boston’s manager but he was very publicly shot down by Lucchino who hired his choice in Bobby V.

    Tim Bogar, Jerry Royster, Alex Ochoa, and Bob McClure were all hired without Cherrington’s consent and without Valentine having a say in the matter.

    Looking at recent events:

    Valentine got McClure fired and got his hand picked guy in Randy Niemann hired as the pitching coach (That’s one for Bobby V).

    Aceves publicly went against Valentine and got suspended by the team (That’s two for Bobby V).

    They moved the cancerous presences of Beckett, Gonzalez, and Crawford fairly quickly after Beckett and Gonzalez led a meeting with ownership against Valentine. It would have been much easier to do the usual fire the manager and not the players approach that always happens when players and the manager butt heads but instead they kept the manager and removed the main problem players in a sign that ownership is not taking shit from anyone. (That’s three for Bobby V.)

    Right or wrong, it’s clear that when the Red Sox hired Bobby V, they did so with the intention that he instill a new culture of responsibility and discipline. If the results are less than hoped for, then they’ve apparently convinced themselves that it’s only because Valentine didn’t have the tools in place to do things his way.

    While Cherrington did not want Valentine he is only a puppet to the three headed ownership group that has sided with Valentine 100% without wavering this year.

    I’m not going to go so far as to bet money on it, but I would be 100% shocked if Valentine is not managing in Boston next year and probably for the next few years after that as well.

  18. Chuck Says:

    “Aceves publicly went against Valentine and got suspended by the team..”

    True..but ownership sided with the team in the Youkilis issue earlier..the fact he was subsequently traded notwithstanding. Both Pedroia and Ortiz threw Valentine under the bus and no one from the front office said a word.

  19. Lefty33 Says:

    “True..but ownership sided with the team in the Youkilis issue earlier..the fact he was subsequently traded notwithstanding.”

    But either way it’s irrelevant because like you said, Youk still got moved.
    (That’s four for Bobby V.)

  20. Bob Says:

    When Youk was moved they had a ready replacement in Middlebrooks. I never read too much into it.
    When the Sox traded Shoppach, they had Lavarnway waiting in the wings. And they got a former prospect in Beato. Once again, I did not read too much into it.

    But this latest trade has to be viewed as a plus for Valentine. Not a shoe-in to be back next year, but now they are looking more in his favor. He just needs to refrain from being too glib.

  21. Chuck Says:

    Yankees re-acquire Steve Pearce and DFA Brandon Laird.

    Not sure I’ll be able to sleep tonight.

  22. Raul Says:

    Hahaha

    Wasn’t Brandon Laird in the AFL for two straight years? Guess he didn’t deliver on that honor.

  23. Chuck Says:

    As far as I remember, he only played one.

  24. Chuck Says:

    Joe Pactwa won the 1973 EL batting title over Jim Rice by 61 points, .378-.317.

    Can you imagine getting waxed that badly?

  25. Bob Says:

    I believe Pactwa was 5 years older than Rice.

  26. Chuck Says:

    You would be correct, Bob.

  27. Chuck Says:

    And it’s pretty scary that you actually know that. :)

  28. Chuck Says:

    How was fishing Bob..drown a lot of worms?

  29. Bob Says:

    Red Sox, Dolphins or Tigers trivia? Not really

  30. Bob Says:

    Fishing was good. Rainbows were hitting. Usually my limit is 2 dozem and then I mess around with a Mepps lure. I caught 3, 2 of which were keepers.

  31. Bob Says:

    @ 27. Called having no life…and proud of it!!!

  32. Bob Says:

    Speaking of which, Raul, we need to meet somwhere soon on a Sunday and watch the Dolphins, for 1 quarter at least. Mike, you are more than welcome as well.

  33. Bob Says:

    See you guys tomorrow.

  34. Chuck Says:

    “@ 27. Called having no life…and proud of it!!!”

    The fishing gave that away.

  35. Mike Felber Says:

    Thanks Bob. I would come out if in NYC to meet you guys, though not interested in watching the game. I had written you back immediately, did not yet here your response about free speech related issues.

  36. Chuck Says:

    Pactwa was an early version of Brooks Keischnick and Ron Mahay..guys who started as position players and became pitchers.

    Pactwa had back to back 20 HR seasons as a hitter and back to back double digit win seasons as a pitcher..and that’s not counting the seven or eight seasons he spent in Mexico.

    The year he won the batting title he split time between pitching and DH-ing and managed to grab enough PA’s to qualify despite playing 78 games total for the year.

    His brief (four games) appearance in the majors with the Angels was as a pitcher.

    Interesting story.

  37. John Says:

    Brooks Keischnick was awesome.

    One year…03 or 04…he hit a HR for the Brewers as a pH, pitcher, outfielder, and DH. That’s pretty cool.

  38. John Says:

    “Thanks Bob. I would come out if in NYC to meet you guys, though not interested in watching the game. I had written you back immediately, did not yet here your response about free speech related issues.”

    Mike, watch the fucking game. I’m in CT and definitely in the city for labor day weekend. But not for any OWS bullshit.

  39. Mike Felber Says:

    Sounds somewhat less tolerant than usual for you John. No reason I should watch football if uninterested, I would come for the company Also no reason to assume I am interested in talking to you folks about OWS-though to be open to hearing all sides of things is correlated with maturity & the ability to grow. Lose that young you are in danger of becoming a case of arrested development.

    If Bob or someone wants to talk about anything in the world I would not deny them, & you need not police anything. But sure, come to my fair city. I personally have no agenda. A fancy ct. boy thinks he can hack it in the Big League City, welcome.

    Last line of BS submitted only for humorous effect.

  40. Raul Says:

    Motherbitch. Ryan Braun with a 4-hit game and 5 RBI.

  41. Raul Says:

    The long lost Brett Anderson went 7 innings of 2-hit baseball.
    Oakland wins 3-0.

  42. Mike Felber Says:

    El Tiante is listed # 39 all time in the Elorater. Seems a bit high, though methinks he is about as close to HOF worthy as he could get without deserving it. One more very good year would have done it for me.

  43. Raul Says:

    Loved the Lost Son of Havana documentary on Luis Tiant.

    El Tiante got fucked out of the 1968 Cy Young. Well maybe ‘fucked’ is a bit strong. Denny McClain pitched a lot more innings, but Tiant was more dominant.

    Man, if Tiant never got injured, he may well have gone on to a HOF career.

  44. Mike Felber Says:

    I assume the injury sapped at least some significant value off of more than one year. Thus if I am correct that he was borderline already-& his career WAR is ~62, he would have deserved & made the HOF. He had nothing the last 3 years, & was good from his 1st year at age 23. If he could have expanded those parameters of quality pitching a bit, he would be in.

    I’ll have to see the documentary or find out otherwise if he could have made the majors earlier.

  45. Bob Says:

    John, where in CT?

  46. Bob Says:

    The Pirates released Bedard.

  47. Bob Says:

    Casey Kelly’s line last night

    6 innings 3 hits, 2 walks 4 k’s and 0 earned runs.

    The Padres line last night. A 3-0 victory over the Braves

  48. John Says:

    @Bob, Groton

  49. Bob Says:

    Damn, I was recently in Old Lyme.

  50. Bob Says:

    ESPN renewed its coverage of baseball for 8 more years.

  51. Chuck Says:

    “El Tiante is listed # 39 all time in the Elorater.”

    So, wait..you rip the player comps and black/gray ink and HOF monitors, which are based off actual performance, yet have no problem backing a system equal to All Star voting?

  52. Chuck Says:

    The MiLB record book lists Rice as the ‘73 EL batting champ, guessing BR uses different qualifiers for their rankings.

    Pactwa did lead the league in wins (tied) and ERA, still not bad for a guy who two years earlier finished fourth in the league in homers.

  53. Mike Felber Says:

    Wrong on serval counts CHuck. I do not mean to be negative, but you keep getting what I believe & say incorrect.

    I only “ripped” player comps & HOF monitors when used, as unfortunately is done too often, top judge who good a player is. Since they deal with raw #s & other stats that have no adjustment for era, park, peak value…

    I did not rip black & gray ink, has some value, though you need to see what someone was amongst the leader in, & how much it reflects what an individual does.

    But mainly, how did I back the Elorater system? It is a popularity contest amongst generally saber-inclined folks, I never said it was infallible. Often enough I see players rated too high or low, Dick Allen is too low. And I said that is listed as 39 all time (amongst pitchers) & that seemed a bit high. I do not know why you did not copy that part of my quote.

    So clearly I am not saying the system is near perfect.

  54. Chuck Says:

    It was a general statement, Mike, and a response wasn’t necessary.

  55. Chuck Says:

    Happy 69th birthday Lou Piniella..Happy 62nd Ron Guidry.

  56. Chuck Says:

    On this date in 1958, Nellie Fox set the ML record for most consecutive games without striking out.

    I don’t think Mark Reynolds has gone 98 minutes.

  57. Raul Says:

    lol @ Mark Reynolds

    Wow. Lou is 69. What is Yogi? Like 86?

  58. Raul Says:

    Speaking of Yogi…

    It’s probably fair to say that over the last 40 years, Derek Jeter is the biggest Yankee in that time. Certainly he’s been more beloved and successful than Don Mattingly — at least on a larger scale.

    But if you were to rank Yankee Greats, would Jeter rank above Yogi Berra?

    Jeter has his rings. He has 3,000 hits. He’s going to the HOF.
    But let’s not forget that Yogi Berra took like 10 WS Titles and won the MVP 3 times.

  59. Bob Says:

    Raul, how do you rank Yankee greats?
    1. Ruth
    2. Gehrig
    3. Fill in the blank from Mantle, Joe D. Berra Jeter etc.
    4. Stay safe throught the night Patrick and to our friends along the coast.

  60. Raul Says:

    I’m not sure how i’d rank them.
    Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jeter, Ford

    But I’m sure I am forgetting players. And that’s just ranking without any serious thought.

  61. Mike Felber Says:

    Nah, you aid specific things Chuck, indicating to ME incorrectly that I ripped a few different things-when i only did for a the HOF monitor & player comps-& that I was a no problem supporter of Elorater, when I actually had just levied a mild critique of it. If I a addressed you & misrepresented your positions you would & should, nicely, set me straight. You cannot sell that I am somehow being picayune.

    I like that order, unless there is someone else that belongs in there around the bottom. Gehrig & Mantle are close.

  62. Mike Felber Says:

    I meant the monitor & comps are fine for looking at HOF odds & accumulated anything but how good a guy is.

  63. Mike Felber Says:

    Engaging.

  64. Chuck Says:

    “You cannot sell that I am somehow being picayune.”

    It’s my finger on the erase button…

  65. Chuck Says:

    “If you blog about politics, or administer a website about politics, let me know. I am working with a fantastic new group that is running a fantasy competition (like fantasy baseball) all about politics…”

    Fantasy politics..holy shit.

  66. Raul Says:

    I assume with Fantasy Politics, the congressman/pundit who says the wildest nonsense gets you the most points.

    That first round must be a doozy.

    Back to baseball, Ricky Romero lost his 11th straight decision.

  67. Chuck Says:

    How is Carlos Pena still a f/t player?

  68. Raul Says:

    He is awful this year.

    Moneyball came on last night. Honestly, it’s a nice movie. The way they portrayed the scouts was so unfair though.
    Anyway, they referred to Pena as an All Star when they traded him to Detroit. LOL

  69. Bob Says:

    Here is a question for you guys?

    1, Would you rather have a Newt Gingrich rookie congressional card in mint condition or a Nancy Pelosi rookie Congressional card in mint condition?

    My fantssy??? To own both

  70. Chuck Says:

    Over his last 573 games, covering almost 2900 AB’s, Carlos Pena is hitting .209.

    He makes Adam Dunn look like Tony Gwynn.

  71. Chuck Says:

    Bob..you’ve been watching too much NCAA fishing on ESPNU.

  72. Bob Says:

    I wish. Actually, I rarely watch fishing shows. Rather do it than watch it. Though that cannot explain my habit of viewing porn.

  73. John Says:

    “Anyway, they referred to Pena as an All Star when they traded him to Detroit. LOL”

    Technically a true statement…Pena made the 2009 all-star game.

  74. Bob Says:

    Joe Mauer is on waivers.

  75. John Says:

    DODGERS GET HIM NOW

  76. Chuck Says:

    Not going anywhere.

  77. John Says:

    Correct.

  78. Raul Says:

    Lol @ Dodgers get him now.
    It seems like they went after everyone.

  79. Bob Says:

    Brian Cashman on Melky and Bartolo “Unfortunately, not surprised.”

  80. John Says:

    Hahahahahaha.

    Oh Cashman…

  81. Raul Says:

    Man, I really want to give the MVP to Miguel Cabrera…but I just can’t overlook Trout’s season.

  82. Chuck Says:

    Keith Law doesn’t have Cabrera in his top five.

    Unfortunately, not surprised.

  83. John Says:

    Yup. I think Miggy is stuck with yet another top-5 season.

    It will likely be his 4th consecutuve top-5 finish and 6th overall.

    I’d have him either second or third. He’s got Cano with the bat, but I gotta believe Cano’s blowing him out of the park in the field.

  84. John Says:

    Keith Law apparently values defense even more than I do.

  85. Chuck Says:

    More likely, he’s a bigger idiot than you.

  86. Bob Says:

    Still have one more month to go.

  87. Bob Says:

    I wonder if the Sox try to trade for (purchase) Stanton this off-season.

  88. Chuck Says:

    “I wonder if the Sox try to trade for (purchase) Stanton this off-season”

    Hahaha…who you going to trade for him..the entire Pawtucket roster?

    LOL

  89. Bob Says:

    Keep hearing rumors the Marlins are having $$$ issues. And no, it would be players below Pawtucket.

  90. Chuck Says:

    The Marlins have been having $$$ issues since 1993, and regardless they’re not trading a player of Stanton’s talent for anyone that won’t be in their starting lineup the next day.

  91. Chuck Says:

    AFL rosters announced..(most of them, anyway)

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120829&content_id=37521204&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

  92. Raul Says:

    You could put a third team in New York State and it would do better than any baseball team in South Florida.

  93. Raul Says:

    It’s no secret here that for years I thought Manny Ramirez had the prettiest swing in baseball. I loved his balance and approach to hitting.

    With Manny long gone (and Griffey too, for that matter), who’s swing do you people love?

  94. Raul Says:

    Watching the Cardinals/Pirates on ESPN.

    When asked if Andrew McCutchen, at this moment, was the NL MVP, Nomar Garciaparra said no, because the Pirates arent in the playoffs yet. If he can help the team get to the playoffs, then yes.

    Sigh
    There’s a bottle of Jack in the cupboard that I got for my birthday back in May. Time to open it up.

  95. Chuck Says:

    Pretty funny shit, coming from a guy who won two tainted batting titles.

  96. Raul Says:

    Ok fair is fair.

    Pedro Alvarez is hitting pretty darn well lately.

  97. Raul Says:

    Ozzie Guillen is surrounded by pansies and lolligaggers in Miami.

    Poor guy. He might actually fight one of his players someday.

  98. Chuck Says:

    “He might actually fight one of his players someday.”

    Or he can tell Jeffrey Loria to fuck off to his face.

    Last guy who did that is managing the Yankees.

  99. Chuck Says:

    Watching White Sox/Orioles..Donnie Veal pitching for White Sox.

    In the AFL a few years ago, hung out with him while he was charting. Very cool guy.

  100. Chuck Says:

    Mark Reynolds….221/14/42.

    Might want to invest in the Japanese program on Rosetta Stone.

  101. Raul Says:

    Hahaha.

    All I know is Arigato and Biru (beer)

  102. Raul Says:

    Bryce Harper hits 2 HR…and gets ejected.
    Have to say, first time I’ve get heard of that happening.

  103. Mike Felber Says:

    I know mostly a few words of greeting & scehbeh (dirty) words from my ex.

    I do not know what you mean by “it’s my finger on the erase button” Chuck. Only thing I can imagine seems unfairly evil-that me politely adddressing several statements about my position on a baseball matter that you made directly to me is so objectionable to you that you are threatening to ban me again. It is hard to imagine you coould be so malicious & irrational, so just forgive me for a lack of imagination in coming up wioth what you may have intended to say.

  104. Chuck Says:

    “Bryce Harper hits 2 HR…and gets ejected”

    Last time up, he hit into a double play, and as he crossed first base, threw his helmet.

    I played. I coached. I umpired.

    One universal thing between all three was the unaccepting of throwing equipment.

    You throw anything, regardless of intent, you’re out.

    This isn’t the first time THIS YEAR he’s been ejected for spiking his helmet, if he’s too stupid to realize the only way to get the target off his back is to lose the prima donna attitude and stand in line, then that’s his fault.

    I don’t care if you’re some punk-ass rookie or Derek Jeter, you throw your helmet or hat or glove or bat, you’re taking a shower..first inning or ninth, doesn’t matter.

  105. Lefty33 Says:

    “You throw anything, regardless of intent, you’re out.”

    I agree and I was shocked this past Sunday when Jon Pettibone struck out Chris Dickerson looking and then Dickerson after taking a step flipped/threw his bat almost back to the dugout and nothing was done.

    Dickerson had struck out in his prior two AB looking and already let his feelings be known to the home plate ump so it really shocked me that he didn’t get tossed.

  106. Lefty33 Says:

    “Keep hearing rumors the Marlins are having $$$ issues. And no, it would be players below Pawtucket.”

    When you combine total apathy from the potential fanbase with meddling ownership it equals a shitstorm that MLB should have stepped in and done something about years ago.

    The Marlins even with a large year over year attendance increase will still finish in the bottom third of this year and the Rays who are a potential playoff team will finish last.

    Now granted both teams have cheapass meddling ownership that have sabotage their teams chances at winning year after year, just like in Boston this year, and maybe that explains why people don’t come to the games.

    But to me Selig needs to seriously look into either contracting/moving both Florida teams or at least into getting Loria/Sternberg out of there because both are doing nothing for their franchises and MLB is seriously taking a major black eye in the entire Florida market.

  107. Chuck Says:

    “you are threatening to ban me again”

    Trust me, it’s not a threat.

    You’ve been a good boy of late Mike and I appreciate it, and I’m sure everyone else does too.

    No condescending lecturing, stick to the topic at hand, and you have nothing to worry about.

    You know, like everyone else.

  108. Bob Says:

    Dylan Bundy will not be called up by the Orioles.

  109. Chuck Says:

    He never was going to be called up.

  110. Bob Says:

    2013 AL ROY

    1. Bundy
    2. Profar

  111. Cameron Says:

    Hey guys, just dropping in while I’m sitting in a hotel waiting for an interview with my cousin Dan’s staffing agency. I should have my situation resolved before too long.

    Now, y’all get back to the inevitable mangling of each other that I so dearly miss.

  112. Bob Says:

    Cameron, welcome back!!! What state are you in?

  113. Chuck Says:

    You’re a funny guy, Bob.

  114. Chuck Says:

    What’s up..Cam…good luck.

  115. Cameron Says:

    Glad for the support guys. Right now I’m in Austinwtown, Ohio. Just got done with the interview and well… Not exactly a resolution, but progress. I talked to a staffer, but she wasn’t aware of any openings, so it’s getting redirected through my cousin to see if there are any opportunitues in Warren, where I’m currently staying. It’s a bit confusing, but the mission where I’m staying is treating my pretty well, so no real rush.

    I have a feeling I’ll be back sooner than later. Just keep me in your thoughts and if you’re religious, in your prayers. …Blame the mission. All the God talk is starting to get to me.

  116. Raul Says:

    good to hear from u cam

  117. Mike Felber Says:

    Glad you are getting by Cam, things will get better, hang in there!

  118. Chuck Says:

    Today is Bob Uecker Day in Milwaukee..erecting a statue out front of Miller Park.

    Buster Olney’s top three for NL Cy Young..

    1) Johnny Cueto
    2) Craig Kimbrel
    3) Aroldis Chapman

    Thankfully, he does not have a vote.

  119. John Says:

    Cueto is running away with the thing. He should win as long as he doesn’t blow up in September.

    After that? Kershaw for sure. Dickey, maybe. Probably Jordan Zimmerman in the mix.

    This is good, though.

    Kimbrel: 48 IP, 1.13 ERA.
    Cueto, first 7 starts: 48.1 IP, 1.12 ERA

    Since then, of course, Cueto has thrown 133.1 high quality innings. But yeah, give Kimbrel the award. Sure.

  120. Chuck Says:

    Today’s the postseason roster deadline..players have to be on the 25 man roster to be post-season eligible.

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see some players moved..coughcoughCarlosLeecough.

  121. Chuck Says:

    I have to agree on Cueto, he’s really had the most consistent season.

    I’d love to see Dickey win it just to shove it up everyone’s velocity, but I don’t think he has much chance at this point.

  122. Chuck Says:

    On this day in 1957:

    Legendary minor leaguer Steve Dalkowski,pitching for Kingsport of the Appalachian League, strikes out 24, walks 18, hits four batters, and throws six consecutive wild pitches. He loses, 9 – 8.

  123. Chuck Says:

    “Epstein, Hoyer determined to move Soriano before deadline”

    Wonder how much $$ they’ll have to eat.

    I would imagine much less than they’re eating now.

  124. Mike Felber Says:

    I would not try to disguise who I was, though no reason I could not-I would not. Of all the indisputable things I said you address one. It is absurd to ask me to fly over to you, & you could just tell me or send me your evidence if it was true, as I have listed it here.

    Baseball where we had an unnecessary personal detour from. Love Dalkowski, wonder if he was the fastest ever, as so many pros & baseball men claimed. If so, nobody knows why this smallish, near retarded alcoholic had such lighting-best he could say himself was strong wrists.

    Dickey is a great guy, though yeah, unlikely we wins or deserves it. Imagine a guy who had real heat & the knuckler though. A fantasy combination.

  125. Raul Says:

    That’s amazing @ Dalkowski.

  126. Chuck Says:

    “nobody knows why this smallish, near retarded..”

    Myth

  127. Chuck Says:

    I think I’m going to be sick…

    The Astros announced the hiring of Baseball Prospectus feature writer Kevin Goldstein as their new Director of Pro Scouting.

    I can taste the vomit as it rises up my esophagus.

  128. Raul Says:

    Astros First Day of Off-season Meetings:

    “Alright, scouts…here’s the deal. I need a list of the top 400 prospects sorted by VORP by April 1st for the June draft. That’ll be all”

    jk

  129. Chuck Says:

    “Pro Scouting Coordinator”

    In official terms, he’s a secretary.

    This is the same job that Keith Law turned down.

    This is the same job that has been open for over a year.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d trade places with him tomorrow, but if there’s 100 people in the Astros scouting department, Goldstein ranks 90th.

    I’d bet he took a pay cut.

  130. Chuck Says:

    I can officially say without question..Brian Kenny is retarded.

    I now know why he spent ten years talking to brain damaged boxers at 2 am in some sweaty ass gym in Brooklyn..ESPN was embarrassed they were paying him.

    The only guy in the world who might be more fucking retarded is the dumbass at MLBNetwork who hired him.

    Godfuckingdamn.

    His vote for NL MVP is Ryan Braun..because he has the best stats.

    I thought Harold Reynolds was going to reach across the desk and slap him.

  131. Mike Felber Says:

    Brian Kenny is no genius…But CHuck, I have read many times about Dalkowski’s limited intelligence. That is before he aquired alcohol related dementia & his family essentially rescued him/took him in.

    Google him & the story is common that Earl Weaver, his main & most effective supporter in helping get him & his pitches under control, administered an IQ test & his was 70 (the top of the mildly retarded range/start of borderline.

    Why do you think that those stories are wrong?

  132. Mike Felber Says:

    The stories about him sound almost unbelievable, yet so many hard nosed baseball guys, Paul Blair, Cal Ripken Sr. Teddy ballgame, many others, repeat things about him being the fastest ever. About his intelligence-Check the link for the Hardball times footnote/citation:

    During the 1960s under Earl Weaver, then the manager for the Orioles’ double-A affiliate in Elmira, New York, Dalkowski’s game began to show improvement. Weaver had given all of the players an IQ test and discovered that Dalkowski had a lower than normal IQ.[13] Armed with this knowledge, Weaver believed he understood why Dalkowski had had such difficulty keeping his game under control: he did not have the mental capacity. Weaver kept things simple for Dalkowski, telling him to only throw the fastball and a slider, and to just aim the fastball down the middle of the plate. This allowed him to concentrate on just throwing the ball for strikes; Weaver knew that not only was his fastball practically unhittable no matter where it was in the strike zone, but that if Dalkowski missed his target, he might just end up throwing it on the corners for a strike anyway.[14] Under Weaver’s stewardship, Dalkowski had his best season in 1962, posting personal bests in complete games and ERA, and walking less than a batter an inning for the first time in his career. In an extra-inning game, Dalkowski recorded 27 strikeouts (while walking 16 and throwing 283 pitches).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dalkowski

  133. Chuck Says:

    “lower than normal IQ” and “near retarded” is like saying Los Angeles is near Vancouver.

    What if Dalkowski was drunk or hung over when he took the test, would that not impact his score?

    His early on-set dementia was cleared caused or accelerated by his alcohol abuse, no reason to think there were other occurrences in his life which were similarly impacted as well.

    Then again, I’ve told the Aroldis Chapman story before, so you never know.

  134. Chuck Says:

    Guess who needs Tommy John….?

    Rafael Furcal.

  135. Mike Felber Says:

    I do not know the Chapman story. Was he thought to be “special”.

    It is true he could have been toasted or recovering, but there was no indication of that. And it seemed that too much instruction confused him, Weaver’s simple approaches helped him.

    Yes, much was impacted by drinking in his life. He recalls little from several decades after ‘64. They thought he would be dead soon after he was put in a care center some years ago, but he has been “remarkably healthy”.

  136. Chuck Says:

    “I do not know the Chapman story. Was he thought to be “special”.

    I’ve relayed it here.

    The Reds pay someone, like the Rangers to with Hamilton, to keep an eye on him, albeit for different reasons.

    With Hamilton, it’s to make sure he doesn’t swing by a local strip club on the way home and oil himself up, with Chapman, it’s to make sure he doesn’t leave his apartment with his underwear outside his pants.

  137. Mike Felber Says:

    Hmm, thanks Chuck. I know about the minder that is Hamilton’s man. Dalkowski had Rube Waddell’s maturity & was an alcoholic. Both guys had baseball guys around them commandeering & doling out their paychecks so they would not blow it all.

  138. Mike Felber Says:

    Now with Sheryl Crow singing, it seems like Lance is completely (un)done. Sad really, that he believes he can keep alive the story that he was clean. I guess this story I recalled from 5 years past in pretty much a true exaggeration of the whole state of the sport.

  139. Chuck Says:

    Tyler Tettleton, the young QB who led Ohio University to a win over Penn State yesterday, is the son of former Detroit catcher Mickey Tettleton.

    Nice.

  140. Bob Says:

    That is nice.

  141. Mike Felber Says:

    Long ago I sent you the responses you were seeking Bob, you sought to discuss things. I have heard nothing back.

  142. Bob Says:

    Mike, did it go to Spam again?

  143. Mike Felber Says:

    No, Sorry if you sent it & I did not get it. I asked here before, did not get a response. Just send it again please, thanks.

  144. Brautigan Says:

    I don’t think Albert Pujols is going to catch Edwin Encarnacion. Who would have thought that?

  145. Chuck Says:

    Whether Pujols could have caught him was debatable from the beginning considering how slow Pujols started.

    The bigger question is who thought Encarnacion would have reached 30, much less 37 or 40+?

  146. Chuck Says:

    For John…

    2nd Annual SABR Analytics Conference, March 7-9, Mesa, AZ.

  147. John Says:

    “His vote for NL MVP is Ryan Braun..because he has the best stats.”

    Oh, the horror. A real MVP would have magically willed KRod and Axford to close baseball games so that the Brewers could be 75-60 and leading the Wild Card.

    “I thought Harold Reynolds was going to reach across the desk and slap him.”

    Harold Reynolds thinks that pitchers control their own run support.

  148. Chuck Says:

    If Braun was really the MVP, they’d be 75-60 DESPITE the bullpen.

    “Harold Reynolds thinks that pitchers control their own run support.”

    Sorry, Princess, but got to call you out on that one.

    Unlike Felber, I can spell Google and can find my own evidence, but you’re going to have to do better than that.

  149. John Says:

    “If Braun was really the MVP, they’d be 75-60 DESPITE the bullpen.”

    No. That’s such absolute bullshit. One player cannot make up for a team that has blown what has to be a record number of saves.

    For the record, my vote is McCutchen with Brauny at #2. But it’s absolute crap to say that he was MVP-worthy last year, and then while he does essentially the exact same thing the next year, he’s not even close because the rest of his team got worse especially the bullpen. A player can’t control the performance of his teammates.

    “Unlike Felber, I can spell Google and can find my own evidence, but you’re going to have to do better than that.”

    http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search?q=pitchers+run+support

  150. Chuck Says:

    Haha..you justified a point by providing a link to the biggest satirical/fictional website in the history of the internet.

    C’mon, dude, you couldn’t get that by Larry the Cable Guy.

  151. John Says:

    Dude, if you don’t want to read the commentary, just read the bold stuff, which is a word-by-word account of what Reynolds was saying:

    ” I think a lot of times you see these clubs with great pitchers, and the great pitchers struggle to get runs, I think a lot of times, teams go in there and go, “We’re not going to get a whole lot of runs today, you know, with this guy pitching.” I think a lot of times when you have poor pitching (he really punches these two words) going, you know you gotta score some runs! (Really emphatic there.) And it becomes a mindset. You change the style of play that you play, you end up trying to bang a little bit more, you do a lot of things differently. I think when you know you have to score runs, it changes your style of offense.”

    That’s pure idiocy at it’s finest.

  152. Chuck Says:

    No one in the history of earth knows less about baseball than Ken Tremendous or whatever his name is.

    Even Felber or Shaun know more.

    It was a fictional, satirical website designed to get the writers paid jobs for writing bullshit, instead of doing it for free.

    Sorry, John..respect meter goes down a couple of notches on that one.

    The opinion of a retard on what he heard on TV about a subject he knows nothing about doesn’t constitute a valued or credible opinion.

  153. Chuck Says:

    “And it becomes a mindset. You change the style of play that you play, you end up trying to bang a little bit more, you do a lot of things differently. I think when you know you have to score runs, it changes your style of offense.”

    100% true.

    So, where’s the problem?

  154. John Says:

    “It was a fictional, satirical website designed to get the writers paid jobs for writing bullshit, instead of doing it for free.”

    Ken Tremendous is actually one of the more successful writers in Hollywood, having been a writer on “The Office” for 4 seasons before leaving to become the executive producer of “Parks and Recreation” which is entering its fifth season and is widely regarded as one of the best comedies currently on television.

    “The opinion of a retard on what he heard on TV about a subject he knows nothing about doesn’t constitute a valued or credible opinion.”

    Don’t read the opinion. Read the actual words that Harold Reynolds said. Harold Reynolds = Retard.

  155. John Says:

    No, @153, it’s not true. It’s not harder or easier to hit with good or bad pitching. Professional ballplayers don’t go out there and think “oh, I have Verlander going tonight? Well I’m not going to try very hard. I’ll work hard when Porcello bumbles his way out there.”

  156. Chuck Says:

    “Ken Tremendous is actually one of the more successful writers in Hollywood, having been a writer on “The Office” for 4 seasons before leaving to become the executive producer of “Parks and Recreation” which is entering its fifth season and is widely regarded as one of the best comedies currently on television.”

    You do realize without FJM he doesn’t have the job he has now, right?

    Best resume’ ever.

    Google John Fusco.

    Grew up near me..went to school with my little brother..five days a week of school, got beat up seven times a week.

    Older brother is a dentist..great ballplayer..second baseman..played for me when I was a 15-16 year old youth coach.

    One guy’s a heckuva ballplayer, goes to college and gets a medical degree…

    The other guy is a human punching bag who is so afraid to go outside he sits in his room and fabricates stories and ends up a multi-millionaire Hollywood producer.

    REALLY want to go there, John?

    Not that it matters, but Michael Schur..aka Ken Tremendous..is Regis Philbin’s son in law.

    No wonder why he drinks.

  157. Chuck Says:

    #155..

    Yes, John, it’s true.

    Not taking your middle of the night wet dreams that you could play as proof a 13 year ML player and former AS is a nutjob.

    You’re a piece of work, bro.

  158. John Says:

    “You do realize without FJM he doesn’t have the job he has now, right?”

    No, he did not become the executive producer of the best comedy on tv because of a sports blog.

    He didn’t even reveal his name until well into his time at “The Office,” or maybe after that.

    His current job was the result of his work on The Office.

    And any comment about pitchers controlling their own run support other than as being hitters in the NL, is fucking retarded.

  159. John Says:

    What does Fusco have to do with anything?

  160. Raul Says:

    I’m pretty sure that when the Yankees play against Justin Verlander, they are acutely aware that runs will be hard to come by. Much harder to come by than when they face Luke Hochevar.

    I mean if you don’t think there is a psychological impact in the knowledge that you’re facing an 86mph-hurling Rod Beck if you can get by Pedro Martinez, I don’t know what to tell you.

    And on the flip side, a Red Sox batter might feel confident that a 3-0 lead will hold with Pedro on the mound. Not so confident with Mark Portugal.

  161. Mike Felber Says:

    Chuck, can you cease with the low mentality jock style leg pissing insults?

    I did not mind when you said something clever, like calling my “Freaks” clip a Felber family reunion. But your remarks out of the blue, no 1 in rapid succession, about how dumb I am are just mindless & mean instigation.

    Perhaps you were bored by getting along peacefully, when I took great pains to be nice to you after you kept threatening me for nothing i actually was doing. The shots on Shaun are in a similar vein, & vain. Gratuitous Contempt for a man gone for so long just seems mean & asserting your Ego.

  162. Mike Felber Says:

    Also I must say that I have Googled & linked many things, but when I do so, or just speak from my knowledge, you tend to miss & skip even engaging most of the arguments. And me having asked for what other’s consider evidence is not a lack of knowledge about arguments, but trying to respect & engage what they consider valid info & sources.

    As for the question at hand, just as clutch play is almost always a myth ()given a large enough sample size), trying harder or being resigned & doing less seems overwhelmingly likely to be myth. That is distinct from using varying strategies against different actors in distinct game situations.

    Also it is hard to predict the outcome/effect of even trying harder. Many got revved up when “Facing Ali” (documentary too), but did that HW chance translate into better effort, or was Ali able to play on their tunnel vision often?

  163. John Says:

    “I’m pretty sure that when the Yankees play against Justin Verlander, they are acutely aware that runs will be hard to come by. Much harder to come by than when they face Luke Hochevar.”

    Obviously. But do the Tigers batters just phone it in for Verlander? That’s ridiculous.

    And if you’re so determined to take the opinions of an MLB veteran, that same FJM post had John Kruk arguing EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE – that batters hit better when they’ve got a good pitcher out there. They can be more loose or whatever.

    The real answer is that pitchers can affect their run support if they’re in the National League by hitting.

  164. Raul Says:

    I’m not determined to take anything.

    I’m just saying the pitcher can have a psychological effect on how players approach a game.

  165. John Says:

    Chuck, more so than you, Raul.

  166. Chuck Says:

    #161,

    You’re right, Mike, it was a cheap shot, and I apologize.

  167. Chuck Says:

    Wil Myers..BA’s Minor League POY.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/awards/player-of-the-year/2012/2614000.html

  168. Mike Felber Says:

    Well you are a big guy to be able to acknowledge that Chuck, thanks, no problem.

  169. Chuck Says:

    HOF President Jeff Idelson to Maury Wills;

    “Maury, who’s the fastest Dodger”

    Wills: “Me”

    Idelson: “No, I mean today”.

    Wills: “Still me”.

  170. John Says:

    Haha

  171. Mike Felber Says:

    …As Cobb Said to a sportswriter re: what he would hit against today’s pitchers,he said “about .320″. The guy asked him what, only that? Cobb said “well, you have to remember that I am 73 years old”.

    My working theory is that Cobb faked his death & Chuck is actually the old cuss. ;-)

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/quotes/quocobb.shtml

  172. Bob Says:

    Today’s question: Is it baseball or football tonight?

  173. Chuck Says:

    Really, Bob?

    Football doesn’t start til Thanksgiving.

  174. Bob Says:

    I agree. The Lions always play then.

  175. Mike Felber Says:

    That was meant as a good-hearted jibe, not even an age joke Chuck, & I am no Spring Chicken. Looks like Bob is celebrating Turkey Day about 1 quarter too early by dipping into the Special Reserve!

    Read an article that suggested The Mets rebuild by cutting contracts that sink many, expensive for players not worth it or aging. Suggested they get top prospects by cutting loose Wright & Mr. Knuckler. Thoughts?

  176. Bob Says:

    Who will give up a “top prospect” for Dickey?

  177. Bob Says:

    A trade proposal, just to piss Chuck off.

    Ellsbury and Middlebrooks for Wright and Harvey!!!

  178. Bob Says:

    The Rangers signed the younger brother of Jurickson Profar, Juremi Profar.

  179. Mike Felber Says:

    The article suggested they could get 2 Bob. I have no doubt they can get at least one. Dickey is leading the league in wins, 17-4, even though that overstates his value, he has been a sensation with 1 super dominant stretch, & some will give too much weight to that rather than his age & total history. Also, most high ranked prospects do not pan out, at least as stars, so it is not necessarily a bad move to exchange a select one, at least for a team that wants to win soon.

  180. Chuck Says:

    “Ellsbury and Middlebrooks for Wright and Harvey!!!”

    Piss me off??

    I don’t care about either team, although I must admit I’m still laughing at that one.

  181. Bob Says:

    Can’t blame me for trying, can you?

  182. Raul Says:

    The story right now is the race in the AL East.

    But it would be pretty cool for Oakland to get in the playoffs and make a run. They have the pitching to do it.

  183. Bob Says:

    Raul is rooting for Oakland???

  184. Chuck Says:

    I don’t want Oakland in the playoffs..don’t want to re-light the fire, “..see, Moneyball DOES work”.

    That, and quite honestly, they don’t deserve it. Not the team or the players, but the ownership group….and the city. They’ve been pissing on them for years over the stadium/land deals.

  185. Raul Says:

    Lol.

    Well Bob, I’m a Yankees fan but I love Joe Maddon.

    I guess I’m all over the place.

  186. Chuck Says:

    What does Joe Maddon have to do with Oakand?

    Opened up that bottle you were saving, huh Raul? :)

  187. Bob Says:

    Yes, Raul, you are all over the place. You forced me to look at my calendar and make sure today was Thursday, not Friday. Finally back East and going to reputable saloons, correct?

  188. Bob Says:

    Art Modell passed away.

  189. Raul Says:

    Lol

    I did have a few drinks last night.

    I’m just saying, I root for the Yankees but I like some other teams/managers/players.

    I’m not a complete homer.

    No one will cry for Modell in Cleveland.

  190. Raul Says:

    The talking heads are analyzing the game between the Cowboys and Giants. As if it really means anything.

    This, more than anything else, is why I hate the NFL.
    Really? Suddenly the Cowboys are SB bound after 1 game? The Giants are scrubs after one game?

    I do love football.

    But the more I think about it, sports hasn’t really changed all that much over the last century. But sports coverage HAS. The media has largely ruined the fan experience. Or at least…ruined MY experience…to a degree.

  191. John Says:

    It’s New York and Dallas. What do you expect?

    Just remember that, in spite of their media markets and 9 combined super bowls, the Giants and Cowboys combined to go 17-15 in the regular season. Neither one of these teams is particularly elite and I don’t think either one makes the playoffs this season.

  192. Raul Says:

    @JonHeymanCBS: mike trout WAR of 9.3 is exactly 50 percent better than 2nd place robinson cano (6.2). #arithmetic

    Jon Heyman, like Will Ferrell, has a punchable face. And this tweet only makes me want to punch him more.

  193. John Says:

    Didn’t Heyman say that the day he used WAR was the day he got out of the business?

    But yes, Trout should be MVP.

  194. Raul Says:

    I can’t help but wonder if Miggy had a huge September and pushes the Tigers into the playoffs, if that gets him the award.

    Trout deserves it though.

  195. Chuck Says:

    John..did you see High Heat Stats is looking for writers? That’s the old Baseball Reference blog.

  196. Chuck Says:

    Last two SB champions finished the regular season at 9-7.

    What you do in September don’t mean jack.

  197. Chuck Says:

    The Giants are also the first defending SB champion since the 2002 Broncos to lose their opening game.

    As a Jets fan I find that humorous, but as Mike Silva reminded me, it’s not quite as funny as having Tebow on the roster.

  198. Raul Says:

    How about your comeback players this year?

    Posey and….???

  199. Bob Says:

    Good question.

  200. Raul Says:

    I know people will want to say Adam Dunn. But homers aside, he stinks.

  201. Chuck Says:

    Alex Rios

  202. Lefty33 Says:

    OK, I’m reversing course.

    There’s no way Valentine is back next year.

    This is embarassing.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2012/09/bobby_valentine_3.html

  203. Chuck Says:

    Mike & Mike played the clip this morning..it’s actually pretty funny.

    $10 says he doesn’t make it to October 1st.

  204. Raul Says:

    Lol I gotta side with Bobby V though.

    What a scumbag question. Him getting fired might be worth the punch though. I bet Valentine can throw down.

  205. John Says:

    “Last two SB champions finished the regular season at 9-7.”

    2010 Packers were actually 10-6, with the big difference that they outscored their opponents by an average of 10 points per game during the regular season and really were the best team in the NFC as an overall team. Their 6 losses were by a combined 20 points, two of which came courtesy of a Rodgers concussion. Once they made it, it wasn’t a major shock that they won 4 in a row.

    Compare that to the Giants who got outscored by their opponents in 2011, and relied on flukishly bad play (8 drops, 4 fumbles from a GB offense that had been dominant) and two dropped kickoffs by the SF kick returner.

  206. John Says:

    So, this happened today:

    http://deadspin.com/5941045/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

    As for how it’s scored, just an E-1, right? No different than, if say a pitcher overthrows the 1B on a pickoff attempt and the runner advances to second.

  207. Lefty33 Says:

    @206 – Exactly.

    Chacin turned his head before the ball was in his glove and the throw was not offline so that’s really the only way it could be scored but damn, what a weird play.

  208. Chuck Says:

    Yes..and that’s how it was scored.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_09_06_colmlb_atlmlb_1&mode=box#gid=2012_09_06_colmlb_atlmlb_1&mode=box

  209. Lefty33 Says:

    @204- With how the Red Sox have played over the last month it’s not a scum bag question at all and even if it was, as the manager, Valentine has to show a bit more professional behavior than to threaten bodily harm on someone who is correctly questioning his leadership based on the team’s atrocious play.

    The team has quit on Valentine and the host called bullshit on him because of it.

    He got what he deserves based on the teams and his performance.

  210. Chuck Says:

    Valentine’s an idiot for going on some talk show to begin with, I have no sympathy for him.

  211. Raul Says:

    Whatever dude.

    You gotta have some fucking balls to question a man’s commitment.

    If I had been asked a question like that, I’d be angry too.

  212. Lefty33 Says:

    “You gotta have some fucking balls to question a man’s commitment.”

    Not when it’s clearly warranted you don’t.

    Valentine has made a series of really stupid choices this year and that one takes the cake. When you’re saying things like that clearly you don’t care about the possible fall out and how bad it makes the organization and you look.

    And that deserves to be questioned.

    If he cared, like Chuck said, he never goes on the show to begin with or he simply doesn’t answer a question like that on the air.

    He’s a fucking tool and he’s getting further crucified in the media as he deserves. I was a big Valentine supporter but after this he just lost my respect and he made himself persona non grata in not only Boston but also in MLB.

  213. Raul Says:

    Valentine hasn’t made any choices dumber than any other manager in baseball.

    I disagree here, chief.

    Lots of other managers do dumb shit. Lots of players play poorly. I don’t see anyone asking them if they checked out

    I’ll keep an eye to see if such questions are pointed to Robinson Cano, who’s batting like .150 over the last month. Maybe he checked out too. That scumbag.

    One season with the biggest group of assholes in the league, and Bobby V is the guy who gets asked about his commitment?
    Really? I hope they asked the other 25 players on the roster first.

  214. Raul Says:

    Are you really gonna sit there and tell me Valentine makes dumber decisions than Joe Girardi?

    Lol. Chief….I don’t think so.

  215. Chuck Says:

    If the Yanks miss the playoffs maybe we’ll see Bobby V and Clueless Joe sitting next to other on Baseball Tonight next year.

  216. Chuck Says:

    And through it all, Buck Showalter is laughing his ass off.

    Who would have thought THAT!!!!

  217. Raul Says:

    Buck Showalter gets a lot of credit for turning teams around.

    I guess.

    But he’s not a better manager than Davy Johnson.

  218. Bob Says:

    Weaver will miss his start tomorrow. If he misses another one, that could eliminate him. Guess today??

    1. Felix
    2. Price

  219. Lefty33 Says:

    “If the Yanks miss the playoffs maybe we’ll see Bobby V and Clueless Joe sitting next to other on Baseball Tonight next year.”

    Although I hear that the Chiba Lotte Marines and Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters may have openings this offseason and Clueless Joe and Napalm Bob would fit in nicely over there.

  220. Lefty33 Says:

    “Are you really gonna sit there and tell me Valentine makes dumber decisions than Joe Girardi?”

    In the PR department with the media, unequivocally yes.

  221. Raul Says:

    Meh.

    When it’s Bobby V, he’s an idiot.
    When it’s Casey Stengel, he’s hilarious.
    When it’s Ozzie Guillen, he’s a raving lunatic.

    It’s all the same shit.

    People just frame others in a certain way depending on whether or not they like them.

  222. Raul Says:

    Can’t believe the Orioles could actually win the division.

    Big crowd in Camden Yards tonight. Come on Yanks.

  223. Lefty33 Says:

    “When it’s Ozzie Guillen, he’s a raving lunatic.”

    No different with Guillen. He’s a hack and an idiot as well.

  224. Raul Says:

    You shut your disgusting Philly cheez whiz mouth. Ozzie Guillen is a saint!!

    Hahaha.

  225. John Says:

    In his defense, Ozzie has yet to send Giancarlo Stanton up to bunt, something I was about 94% sure he’d try.

  226. Lefty33 Says:

    “Ozzie Guillen is a saint!!”

    LOL!

  227. Chuck Says:

    If I was Valentine, the minute Pedroia, Ortiz and Gonzalez threw me under the bus, I would have said fuck this and walked right back to Bristol.

    In a way, you can’t blame him for bailing..the clubhouse didn’t respect him and the front office backed the players.

    Man on an Island.

  228. Chuck Says:

    Not sure which says more about the Yankees’ season, that a bum like David Phelps is pitching in a game of this magnitude, or the Yanks are getting zipped by a bum like Jason Hammel.

  229. Raul Says:

    Trivia question tonight:

    Arod has 1,000 games at SS & 3B.
    Name the other two players with 1,000 games at two infield positions.

  230. Raul Says:

    Hope Ozzie makes Stanton bunt to lead off the 8th inning of a 2-2 game at home. Just to make John lose his shit.

    Would be so worth it.

  231. Chuck Says:

    check out this pitching motion

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMy4f3EfKe4

  232. John Says:

    Let’s see.

    Pete Rose comes to mind.

    As does his teammate, Tony Perez.

    Jay Bell, maybe? I don’t think he had 1000 games as a 2B in Arizona.

  233. Chuck Says:

    Killebrew is one.

  234. Raul Says:

    Giving up a HR to Robert Andino is immediate grounds for demotion. Right?

    Well, it should be.

  235. Chuck Says:

    I was going to say Rod Carew, but I think Perez is right as well.

  236. John Says:

    Actually, Pete Rose didn’t play 1000 games at any single position.

    Perez was pretty close.

    What about Ernie Banks?

  237. Raul Says:

    So the answer is Ernie Banks and Rod Carew.

  238. John Says:

    I snuck it in there!

    Carew makes sense, should’ve thought of that.

  239. Chuck Says:

    See.

    Manny Machado’s going to be a stud…in 2016.

    Robert fucking Andino?

    Maybe the Yanks should sign Clemens.

  240. Chuck Says:

    High five, John.

  241. John Says:

    Killebrew had 961 games at first, 791 at 3B. Also, 11 at 2B. Fuck the heck?

  242. John Says:

    The Curse of the Andino strikes again!

  243. Raul Says:

    First thought was Yount. But it said infield.

    Yount went from SS to CF

  244. Chuck Says:

    Five homers in the past six games for Bryce Harper..who thinks roster expansion is just a coincidence?

    Regardless, if you’ve been reading around of late, his dick is clearly back in the glory hole.

  245. John Says:

    Yeah. Musial and Greenberg also won MVP’s at two positions (IF and OF). Musial had over 1,000 games at 1B and over 1800 in the OF, split evenly between right and left.

  246. John Says:

    Man, does Chuck hate Bryce Harper.

  247. Raul Says:

    I think that guy from the Reds is gonna win NL ROY

  248. John Says:

    Frazier’s having a very good year, but the only reason for him over Harper would be that Harper was so incredibly hyped and didn’t hit 75 home runs like SI was predicting him too, whereas Frazier was a relative unknown.

    My ROY would be Wade Miley.

  249. Raul Says:

    8.2 innings
    17 hits.

    That’s joba’s line this year as he enters the game.
    Ouch.

  250. Raul Says:

    Didn’t Miley push Collmenter out of the rotation?
    I thought that’s what happened.

  251. Chuck Says:

    I don’t hate Bryce Harper.

    I hate the hype.

    He’s 19 playing everyday for a postseason team..that’s awesome. But he’s not the best 19 year old ever.

    Look at what ARod did in his age 20 season. If in a year from now Harper’s got even half those numbers, then we can talk.

    In ten years, if he’s got Junior numbers, then we can talk.

    He’s in the bottom half of baseball in production, yet he leads the league by a mile in publicity..Christ, he gets more than Trout, who, by the way, is a FAR more talented player.

    Rant over.

  252. Chuck Says:

    Todd Frazier..not close.

    Miley’s pitched himself out of the equation of late.

  253. John Says:

    “Miley’s pitched himself out of the equation of late.”

    Overall numbers: 14-9 (6th), 2.90 ERA (5th), 149 ERA+ (2nd), 1.123 WHIP (8th), 117 K, 30 BB in 164 IP.

    Those are NL ranks. He should probably garner a couple 5th place Cy Young votes.

    And definitely win ROY.

  254. John Says:

    In his last 6 starts, Miley has a 2.61 ERA. In his last two, he’s given up 3 runs a piece (in 7 and 6.2 IP), but that’s hardly bombing.

  255. Chuck Says:

    Yeah, you’d think.

    But he’s not.

  256. Raul Says:

    joba gave up a hr to mark reynolds

    sigh

  257. Chuck Says:

    Tough to give up a homer to a guy who sucks more than you.

  258. Chuck Says:

    That 3-1 pitch to Machado is the difference between a rookie and a veteran.

    In five years, he’s going to spit on that, and force whomever’s on the mound to hit the same spot twice in a row.

    If so, tip your hat..if not, Trot City.

  259. Chuck Says:

    “Tough to give up a homer to a guy who sucks more than you.”

    Every guy I got will tell you the same thing.

  260. Raul Says:

    wow
    brandon mccarthy had a skull fracture

    word is he is alright, though

    thank goodness. that was scary

  261. Raul Says:

    dear lord

    yankees tie the game at 6 in the 8th inning….and the bullpen blows it in the bottom of the inning

    orioles lead 9-6

  262. Mike Felber Says:

    Very few ever approach their early hype. Lebron did. And Raul you are right we see folks through our prejudiced lenses. Though few would get a pas for Valentine/Guillen like conduct.

  263. Bob Says:

    ARod at age 20 with Griffey in the same line-up and who knows what in his blood.

    215 hits
    36 homers
    an on-base% of .414
    15 swibes in 19 tries
    Harper reaches half of those totals next year. With ease.

  264. Chuck Says:

    Big picture Bob.

  265. Chuck Says:

    The lead to Bob Nightengale’s column in USA Today..

    “Bobby Valentine never had a chance. Don’t blame the Boston Red Sox mess on him. The manager wasn’t the answer and never really had a chance. Just look at the 63-75 record.”

    “And so Valentine will be fired virtually the moment the season ends on October 3″.

    “Owners John Henry and Tom Werner— who were sold on Valentine, although not enough to give him more than a two-year contract — know it.”

    “General manager Ben Cherington, whose first choice for the job was Dale Sveum, knows it.”

    “Red Sox President Larry Lucchino told USA TODAY Sports on Thursday, “We’ll re-evaluate it at the end of the season,” but he knows it.”

    “And, of course, Valentine knows it.”

    I’d be surprised if he makes it to October third.

  266. Bob Says:

    Actually Valentine had a chance if

    1. They give Middlebrooks the job at day 1
    2. He shuts up around the media.
    3. Iglesias takes the SS position out of spring training.
    4. Lavarnway and Salty emerge out of spring training instead of Shoppach and Salty.
    Again, I am not blaming him for the beer and chicken. I blame 3-4 pitchers.
    I am not blaming him for leaks that shamed the players. Not sure who I blame, or credit, but it is not Valentine.
    What he gets blamed for is thinking he is too skilled in the PR departmant in a city like Boston. And he should get blamed for that.

  267. Chuck Says:

    The Sox would have had to trade Youkilis during the off-season, coming off an injury that was unlikely.

    Iglesias sucks.

    So does Lavarnway. He can hit a little, but he’s not good enough to play defensively everyday.

    Valentine did just fine in both LA and New York. It’s not the market, it’s the environment.

    Valentine was dead since day one..he wasn’t their first choice, and the players were so used to Francona’s laid back ways that bringing in the hammer would have the opposite affect that was intended.

    It’s not right that Valentine always had to defend himself.

    If Henry and Cherington thought they were getting an ass-kissing puppet, then they clearly didn’t do their homework.

  268. Lefty33 Says:

    To me the Valentine thing is the perfect shit storm of several issues that have all piled up on top of each other and most of this year’s Red Sox mess earlier in the year had nothing to do with Valentine as he was just a scapegoat for the NE media and for the lazy ass players. But his mouth and what the team has done on the field since the Dodger trade have made things his problem.

    Like I mentioned here a few weeks ago, Cherington wanted no part of Valentine but he is merely a puppet GM with Henry and Lucchino calling the shots and Lucchino publicly shot down Cherington’s choice of Sveum and shoved Valentine down his throat as that was his pick.

    Henry, Lucchino, and Werner have adopted the worst pages of the King George playbook with the business people making baseball decisions. Why have a GM when he isn’t allowed to pick the manager? Why have a manager when he has no say into his coaching staff or personnel?

    The whole chicken and beer/Youk and Middlebrooks debacle are both not Valentine’s fault as issue number one happened on Francona’s watch and Valentine merely inherited those players. Middlebrooks probably should have been at 3B from day one but that also goes back to the whole issue of the three owners micromanaging the day to day happenings of the team and not letting their baseball people do what they do.

    If Valentine doesn’t do that radio interview and if he doesn’t continually show up his players publicly to the point of what’s left of the team quitting on him then he’s the manager next year without question and regardless of the team’s record.

    But you can’t have the “leader” of your team threatening physical violence on a person working for a company that you have a long term multi-million dollar relationship with just like you can’t have Valentine napalming his players publicly thinking that will somehow motivate them.

    In 1950, maybe. Today, hell no.

    But with that said, Lucchino should have done his homework on Valentine and realized that everywhere he’s gone he has napalmed his personal/business relationships in an eternal quest to show everybody how smart he is and to think that in Boston that wouldn’t happen is either delusional or highly stupid.

    When you hire guys like Pinella, Guillen, Valentine, Larry Brown, and Bob Knight you have to do it knowing that while you may win for a while, the guy will wear out his welcome very fast and at some point sooner than later the players will tune him out and stop playing and for Valentine that’s happening right now and that’s why he’ll be gone.

  269. Chuck Says:

    I find it hard to believe a guy with Valentine’s experience would walk into a gunfight with a water pistol, unless his ego is so big he believed he could straighten out that clubhouse just by walking in and sitting at his desk.

  270. Raul Says:

    So I’m going to take some credit for saying that Yu Darvish wasn’t as good as he seemed early on.
    And I am also going to take some credit for saying this Yankees team wasn’t as good as they seemed for most of the season.

    I’m pretty sure I said at the start of the season that the Yankees might not make the playoffs this year. And while I thought it would have been Boston and Tampa ahead of them, the challenge has come from Baltimore, not Boston.

    I’m actually disappointed that I was right about the Yankees.

  271. Bob Says:

    His ego is big. He invented the wrap.

  272. Raul Says:

    Hahahaha @ Bob

    Touché.

  273. Chuck Says:

    Any coincidence the Yankees’ slide is in some form tied to Teixeira being out?

  274. Raul Says:

    I suppose it does change things a little bit.

    I mean A-rod and Tex aren’t going to hit .300 with 35 HR and 35 doubles anymore. But as a pitcher, you do have to be a bit more careful with them in the lineup.

    And I’m pretty sure Cano (or sadly, Nix) has to be a bit more concerned about range with Swisher at 1B

  275. Chuck Says:

    Cano’s a dog..can’t stand him.

    Yanks give him a big contract they’re fucking idiots.

  276. Raul Says:

    Chuck, you’re comparing Cano to like…fucking HOFers and shit.

    I get that he’s not Joe Morgan. But look around the league. As far as overall 2B go, Cano is the top guy.

  277. Chuck Says:

    No, I’m not. Everytime I close my eyes, I see Alfonso Soriano.

    Cano’s turned a lot better than Soriano has, but the first couple of years with him is like a never ending nightmare.

  278. Chuck Says:

    On this day in 1961;

    In the same game in which he hit is 55th homer of the season, Roger Maris also lays down a bunt as the Yankees beat the Washington Senators 7-3. Washington’s runs come on a third inning inside the park homer by Tito Francona off Ralph Terry.

    When asked by writers after the game why he bunted, a testy Maris replies, “Trying to win the game, you stupid cocksucker. Why do you think?

  279. Raul Says:

    Hahaha @ Maris. That was great.

    Happened to flip thru channels and some guy called into Mike Francesa. The guy was ranting that in his 50 years of watching baseball, he’s never seen so many hitters swing at so many bad pitches as he does these days.

    I thought Chuck or Braut had called in. But it was a guy from Sacramento.
    Lol.

  280. Chuck Says:

    LOL…I’d have to be really bored to call into a radio show..ESPECIALLY a dirtbag like Francesa.

    25 years ago when FAN started, he was really, really good. Now he’s just a washed up blowhard.

  281. Raul Says:

    So it’s Friday.

    Wei Yin Chen goes against Phil Hughes for sole possession of 1st place in the AL East.

    Stephen Strasburg makes his final start of the season (supposedly).

    Tyler Skaggs goes up against Andrew Cashner.

  282. Chuck Says:

    Yanks need a good start from Hughes. He pitched well last Sunday but lost it before Girardi could get the pen up.

    Rizzo said Strasburg’s last start is September 12th. I don’t believe it.

    Tyler Skaggs may be the most overrated pitching prospect I’ve seen. I had guys tell me when he was still an Angel that he’d be a reliever, and after watching his three starts, I’d say that’s pretty accurate.

  283. Chuck Says:

    Happy Bday to a couple of CT boys..Darren Bragg and Dave Wallace.

    Bragg might be the most unlikely major leaguer ever, and he played 11 years. If you saw him when he was in high school, you would have laughed.

    I’ve never met Dave Wallace, he went to a local high school with Ron Diorio, who is also a former MLer and who is a good friend of mine.

    Wallace was the longtime pitching coach/coordinator for the Dodgers and has spent most of his life in the game..Diorio went back to CT and is a high school basketball coach..last I knew.

  284. Chuck Says:

    Mike Scioscia is under contract until 2018.

    What possible idea do the Red Sox have that the Angels will fire him after the season….OR that he would even want to join the circus.

    Red Sox Nation isn’t a nation, it’s a long-lost planet in space.

    (Cue Twilight Zone theme)

  285. Raul Says:

    I thought you coached Bragg.

  286. Raul Says:

    Every time a batter strikes out and asks the umpire if the pitch was a strike, I wonder if the umpire tells him “well, you’re out, aren’t you?”

  287. Chuck Says:

    “I thought you coached Bragg.”

    I did.

  288. Raul Says:

    Pirates shit the bed tonight.

    AJ Burnett allowed 7 runs. Just three earned though.

  289. Chuck Says:

    “Pirates shit the bed tonight.”

    They made SEVEN errors?!?!

    Yeah, I’d say that qualifies as shit.

  290. Chuck Says:

    McCutchen 0-3, down to .343.

    I’m going to be pretty pissed if Melky wins the batting title.

  291. Raul Says:

    Lol
    Maybe other pitchers will serve him meatballs so he wins the title. Nobody wants Melky taking it.

    I’m already hearing theories that Strasburg dogged it last night to get him another start. Hahaha.

  292. Bob Says:

    Google Stephen Strasburg Steve Avery

  293. Bob Says:

    Strasburg has been shut down.

  294. Raul Says:

    Poetic Justice will be that the Nationals get bumped from the playoffs with John Lannan pitching or some shit.

  295. Bob Says:

    Steve Avery is listed as 6′4′ 180 pounds

    Strasburg 6′4″ 220

  296. Bob Says:

    David Ortiz is “unlikely” to play for the Sox again this year, according to the team’s site.
    Though we all know he will get a couple of at bats in the last game at Fenway this year.

  297. Raul Says:

    1. Strasburg is likely going to be injured at some point REGARDLESS of anything the Nationals do.

    2. Who gives a shit about Steve Avery, or..for that matter…JR Richard? Mike Mussina was a string bean and was one of the most consistent pitchers of his era.

    There is always some guy who got injured early for a guy who wasn’t.

    The Nationals have put this giant fear into Strasburg’s head that’s going to fuck with his mental toughness and confidence for years. All they did was handicap this guy.

  298. Chuck Says:

    If the Nationals gave a shit about Strasburg he would have pitched more than 51 minor league innings and they would have fixed his delivery.

    Jordan Zimmermann had TJ..how come he’s not on a pitch count?

    Innings/pitch limits don’t have Jackfuckingshit to do with preventing injuries.

    Strasburg’s mechanics suck..he could blow his elbow brushing his teeth.

    I hope the Nationals miss the playoffs, and I hope Johnson and Rizzo end up classified as frauds and phonies in the same light as Bonds, Rose and the Black Sox.

    However slim you think they may be, Johnson just kissed goodbye whatever HOF chances he had.

    For the rest of the season, I’m rooting against the Nationals more than the Red Sox and Mets combined, which I didn’t even think possible.

  299. Chuck Says:

    So the new sabermetric regime in Chicago responds to playing like total dogshit for the millionth straight season by firing six minor league coaches.

    Memo to Theo.

    This ain’t Boston, bro.

    You don’t have a billionaire owner and you work with a franchise where losing is expected.

    You’re a Yale jerk-off and everyone knows it.

    All you’re doing now is proving it.

    LOL.

  300. Raul Says:

    Wow. Why would you fire six minor league coaches at once? It’s not like minor league standings mean anything.

  301. Chuck Says:

    I’m not right very often, so in those rare cases where I am, I deserve the right to fondle myself publicly..

    Chase Headley.

  302. Raul Says:

    Chase Headley might be the most overrated player in the national league.
    Although I know Chuck has similar feelings for David Wright.

  303. Chuck Says:

    Raul, you know I love ya, bro, but you got to be a pretty good player to put up the numbers he’s doing playing half his games in the Grand Canyon.

  304. Raul Says:

    I’m not saying Chase Headley sucks.

    But I don’t think he’s gonna turn into Mike Schmidt if he gets traded to Baltimore.

    I have been wrong before though.

  305. Raul Says:

    Yankees got robbed

  306. Lefty33 Says:

    “But I don’t think he’s gonna turn into Mike Schmidt if he gets traded to Baltimore.”

    Funny you should mention Schmidt because I’ve read so many opinions from people who think that the Phillies should sell their souls to get Headley for the same reason that Chuck mentioned.

    I mean I guess it’s true in theory that if he’s putting up those numbers in PETCO he should really thrive in a matchbox stadium but as of now I’ll believe it when I see it.

  307. Jim Says:

    Valentine was a horrible choice to manage the Sox, but that said this years debacle can’t be laid at his feet. The injuries would have kept them from contending anyway, then add to that under performing stars, in particular Pedroia and Gonzales. But even with that they may have stayed close if it wasn’t for the miserable sucking performances of Lester and Beckett.

    Middlebrooks was never in consideration to start at third coming out of ST. After his promotion to AAA late in 2011 he barely hit his weight as he struggled to adjust to higher level pitchers. While he was considered the 3b of the future, there was a broad consensus that he needed time at AAA. In the end, he needed less time than anyone could have imagined.

    Another factor was dumping Marco Scutaro for Mike Aviles in order to get some payroll flexibility. While they were a wash defensively Scoot in 2011 hit .299/.358/.423 while so far Aviles in 2012 is .253/.286/.392.

    Iglesias is a robust 1 for 19 in 2012. There is no evidence that he can hit enough to justify carrying his glove. Lavarnway’s future is being a utility player covering catcher, DH, 1B and perhaps corner outfield positions. His lack of agility is being exposed with regular starts behind the plate this year.

    And who here would have thought, that when Adrian Gonzales was traded to the RS he would morph into Pete Runnels.

  308. John Says:

    @299, reality check: it’s year 1.

    Theo can’t undo the horrendous, mind-numbingly stupid work of traditional handy-man Jim Hendry in 1 year. Not possible.

  309. Patrick Says:

    Never mind what he’s doing to the Cubs, Theo left the Redsox in horrible shape. Decimated by bad contracts and worse talent. On behalf of the Yanks and Rays, thank you Theo!

    They will be bad for a long time thanks to Epstein. He was more like a corporate raider than a GM. He knew when to jump ship. A 70-92 team for the forseeable future.

    It’s a failure that even Theo’s disciples can’t escape but they still make excuses for the guy because he’s their SABR poster child.

  310. Raul Says:

    The Yankees are a mess right now. And while the players need to perform better, it is exactly times like these that a manager should be showing his worth to the team and ownership.

    Girardi seems incapable of leading this team, calming the storm, relaxing his players, and focusing them on winning.

    As much as we criticized him, this team could use a little “Joe Torre” right about now.

    They were robbed last night. But when you’ve got Tex and Martin ripping the umpires, and Jeter and Sabathia essentially blaming themselves….I mean, this doesn’t look like a group of guys with a singular focus and drive.

    And now I’m hearing Freddy Garcia is starting tonight..looks like I’m drinking early today.

  311. Patrick Says:

    Garcia @ Britton, 1:35PM

    Maybe Raul is right about Girardi. I think the Yanks were weak-minded to lose a 10 game lead.

    The truth is, because of injuries, they’re not a great team right now.

  312. Chuck Says:

    Garcia is listed as the starter, although ESPN did say last night that Ivan Nova was coming off the DL to start today.

    I guess not.

  313. Chuck Says:

    Swisher looks like a tool with the sunglasses AND eye black.

    One or the other, homes.

  314. Bob Says:

    Texiera could miss the rest of the year.

  315. Raul Says:

    I wonder if the Yankees can convince the Dodgers to take the Teixeira contract too.

    Maybe they can plug him in at SS.

    What a terrible deal that turned out to be.

  316. Patrick Says:

    Phillies are 37-47 without Ryan Howard and 32-24 with him.

    Including this year, Tex has 132 HR and 422 RBI, plus GG fielding over his 4 years with the Yanks. Hard to expect more than that.

  317. Raul Says:

    For 190 million, I expect him to smack doubles to left center field with his cock

  318. Mike Felber Says:

    How could they not care about Strasburg? A huge investment & PR deal, they must “care”. Though I wonder if they have made efforts to improve his delivery, & if SS would accept that.

  319. Raul Says:

    If they truly cared about Strasburg, they wouldn’t have rushed him to the Majors in the first place.

    They would have worked on his mechanics and secondary pitches in the minors over 250-300 innings.

    Now the Nationals have a legitimate shot at the World Series and won’t have their most dominant starter. It’s quite possible the Nationals don’t even make the playoffs for the next 5 years. I mean who knows? This could be their only chance.

    Nothing is guaranteed. The friggin Yankees have 200 million, traded for the best player in the game in 2004…IN HIS PRIME…and won just one title since.

  320. Mike Felber Says:

    Right, what I meant was that regardless of how they may devalue him as an individual, how can they be so obtuse when they seemingly want to win & ride his coattails, re: gate, PR, marketing-how could they not bother to assist his skills, at least ensure his durability? I mean, they were conservative in ineffective ways re: limiting his IP-they do want him healthy why not work on his mechanics at least?

  321. John Says:

    Tex has played like a 10M/year player, which is to say, quite well. Trouble is, he’s making double that.

    On the other hand, while Tex has been in NYC, Cano has played like a 20+ million dollar player and has been paid, on average, like 8 or 9 M.

  322. Patrick Says:

    @317, you would think it would take something like that to make $190M.

    @321, yeah, I’m guessing 90% of the $100M+ contracts don’t pay off in stats. Tex would have to hit about 60 HR/per yr to be worth $20M.

    Strasburg; That’s some weird shit. They painted themselves into a corner and completely screwed with the kid’s head. Now he has a bad outing and he’s done for the year?

    What if he’s throwing BB’s in 3 weeks? Why wouldn’t you pitch him in the playoffs? Are you kidding me? No matter what happens to him, Strasburg has earned it!

    If they were going to do this nonsense, why not limit him in the spring, when he’s closer to his surgery and save his innings for crunch? Crazy, IMO.

    If I were Strasburg, and they denied me the chance to partake in postseason play that I helped earn, I would never forgive them.

    Ask Ernie Banks how often you get to play in the postseason.

  323. Bob Says:

    Speaking of Ernie Banks, look at the Long Island National.

    http://www.nyshows.org

  324. John Says:

    If the Nationals were so intent upon this innings limit – which, ok, don’t pull a Dusty Baker, but still a bit excessive – they should’ve had him at 5 IP per start for the entirety of the second half. That way, he keeps his arm fresh and in a routine until the post-season. If he’s going every 5th day until the end, even if it’s for short starts, he’ll be more prepared for the post-season than after a 3 week vacation.

    I’m with you all. Stupid idea all the way around.

  325. Raul Says:

    Now Roger Clemens is in the news. He wants to pitch for the Astros against a contender.

  326. John Says:

    I’m guessing he just wants to push back the HOF counter. You know at some point in the next 5 years, they’ll elect a guy, and find out he did steroids. And when that happens, it’ll be hard to deny one of the top 3 greatest pitchers of all-time. Or he just knows that newer voters will be less upset about his roid use.

  327. Raul Says:

    Yeah that sounds like the plan.

  328. Chuck Says:

    Clemens isn’t pitching for Houston this year.

    It makes for an interesting blog debate, but that’s about it.

  329. Raul Says:

    Selig wouldnt be too happy with Crane if he allowed him to come back.

    But Crane and Clemens are close, supposedly.

  330. Bob Says:

    Hope nobody minds a bit of hockey news. The Bruins signed Tyler Segui to a 6-year extension. This come shortly after the Oilers did likewise with Taylor Hall.
    Now thay just need to play some hockey.

  331. John Says:

    You guys, the Astros know that Clemens won’t be eligible for their post-season roster, right?

  332. Raul Says:

    Lol yes

  333. Chuck Says:

    Haha..

    Is Gary Bettman stupid enough to cancel a second season?

  334. Len Says:

    @John 326, They’ve most likely already elected a steroid user to the HOF, Nolan Ryan for one. Go back and check out his aging patterns from 1987-1991, his age 40-44 seasons. 1234 k’s, 1048 innings pitched, led the league in K’s 4 times led the league in K/9 5 consecutive seasons, led the league in Whip twice, led the league in K/BB once and led the league in H/9 4 times.

    Carlton Fisk’s aging pattern is also suspicious from 1987-1991 his age 37-43 seasons. 700 games at catcher with 142 home runs. Finished second in HR in 1985 age (37) playing mostly at catcher (130 games) after not finishing in the top ten in HR since 1973.

  335. Raul Says:

    I can’t believe Hiroki Kuroda is holding the Yankees afloat. Even if the team couldn’t support him with many runs last night.

  336. Chuck Says:

    Me neither.

    If you had told me in March that Kuroda would be the key to the pennant race I would have LOL’ed at you big time.

  337. Chuck Says:

    http://sabr.org/afl

  338. Raul Says:

    FYI…

    RA Dickey leads the National League in ERA and is 1 win behind Gio Gonzalez for that lead as well.

    Dickey, with 18 wins, has a shot at 20 this year. It would be the first time a Mets pitcher reached 20 since Frank Viola in 1990. Was John even born then?

    BTW, I’m looking at the 1992 New York Mets…this team had some pretty damn decent pitching. They only won 72 games though…that offense sucked.

    Sid Fernandez: 14-11, 2.73 ERA, 214 innings
    Dwight Gooden: 10-13, 3.67 ERA, 206 innings
    David Cone: 13-7, 2.88 ERA, 196 innings
    Pete Schourek: 6-8, 3.64 ERA, 136 innings
    Brett Saberhagen: 3-5, 3.50 ERA, 97 innings

    Does any team today have 5 starters with an average ERA like that? I bet if there is, they certainly are winning more games than 72.

  339. Chuck Says:

    Only two guys with 200+ IP?

  340. Raul Says:

    I never called it a historic season.

    But Cone is at 196…you really gonna hold him 4 innings just to say its not 200?

    It’s not like teams today have 5 guys over 200 anyway.
    The Giants won’t have 3 guys hit 200 this year. And they’re in 1st place.

  341. Len Says:

    @338 Raul,

    Horrible defense on those early 90’s Mets team, the ‘92 Mets might be one of the worst defensive outfields of the last 25 years. In 1992, they had Howard Johnson in Center? Bobby Bonilla in Right, Vince Coleman and Daryl Boston in Left. Hundley and Sasser behind the plate, Magadan and Pecota at SS & 3b a 37 year old Willie Randolph at second and a 32 year Eddie Murray at first. I think Dick Schoefield and Charlie O’brien were the only decent fielders on that team.

    Cone was traded in August of that year that’s why he didn’t reach 200 innings. He had that odd distinction of leading the majors in K’s yet not leading either league.

    They also let Viola go to free agency over the winter. They could have re-signed him instead of Bonilla which would have given them a staff of Cone, Gooden, Viola, Saberhagen and Fernandez.

  342. Chuck Says:

    Seven innings less and they have one.

  343. Raul Says:

    Yankees and Red Sox tonight.

    David Phelps vs Aaron Cook.

    This match up reminds me of politics. Two piles of shit. The only difference is the smell.

  344. Raul Says:

    Ricky Romero against Kevin Millwood tonight.
    If Romero loses this time, he might just get traded for Roger Clemens.

  345. Chuck Says:

    LOL..Hopefully MLBNetwork isn’t showing them….again.

  346. Raul Says:

    Tonight would have been Stephen Strasburg’s final start. And it would have been a really really fun match up against Mets youngster Matt Harvey.

    Instead we’re being treated to a few innings of John Lannan. This is like sitting down to see Caddyshack, only to realize instead of Bill Murray, it’s Dan Aykroyd. Part 2 was terrible.

  347. Chuck Says:

    Nope..today’s Wednesday…ESPN has the national broadcast..guaranteed it’s the Yankees.

  348. Raul Says:

    Thanks to a second half where Max Scherzer has gone 7-1 with a 2.70 ERA, he is 15-6 on the year.

    Congratulations to whatever Santeria/Indian fucking rain dance Miguel Cabrera did to help him turn his shit around.

  349. Raul Says:

    Yeah Chuck.

    I guess they folks at ESPN didn’t think the Sox would be a last place team in September.

  350. Chuck Says:

    Road trip..August 2,3,4 2013..Yankees @ San Diego.

  351. Raul Says:

    Nice. That would be a nice series to shoot for.

  352. Raul Says:

    Does Derek Jeter deserve a Top 5 AL MVP vote this year?

  353. John Says:

    Phillies are now just 3.5 off second wildcard.

  354. John Says:

    “Does Derek Jeter deserve a Top 5 AL MVP vote this year?”

    On his own team? Sure. But let’s be honest, there’s one MVP candidate on that middle infield, and it ain’t Jeter.

    Not that it matters with Trout running away with the thing.

    1) Trout
    2) Cabrera
    3) Cano (I keep flip-flopping on 2,3)
    4) Beltre
    5) Verlander

  355. Raul Says:

    See, I don’t believe Pitchers should get the MVP. So I can see Jeter sneak in there at 5th. Probably ahead of Cano but below Hamilton.
    I don’t have Beltre in the top 5. But I guess he could go there.

  356. John Says:

    Jeter over Cano? No way. Absolutely no way. Cano has carried that team all year.

    And I wouldn’t have him in my top-10, even without pitchers. MAYBE top 20. A terrific year, no doubt, but we’re talking about the very best players in the American League, and he’s still a major defensive liability in the field at an important position.

    His offense this year has been incredible. He’s leading the league in hits, and that’s awesome. His offense has made it so that, even with his abysmal defense, he’s still overall a well-above average player, earning around 80% of the money he’s making, none of which I thought he could possibly do when he signed that extension. So, good on him. Not trying to say he’s Yuni Betancourt or anything, but there are players with fewer hits and lower batting averages who contribute far more as all-around players.

    I always kind of forget about Hamilton because of how abysmal he’s been since the end of May (ops-ing under .800 since then). He’s turned things around a bit, and could salvage a top-5 finish (he is, after all, leading the league in HR and RBI even after all that) but I’d have him around 8th or so.

  357. Raul Says:

    I guess you’re right.

  358. Chuck Says:

    AL MVP

    1) Trout
    2) Who’s on First
    3) What’s on Second
    4) I don’t care
    5) Who gives a shit

  359. Chuck Says:

    Got home from work and opened up my email to see a note from the UCONN Alumni announcing Jim Calhoun is retiring.

    Sad face.

  360. Raul Says:

    Looks like the best team at Uconn will be the women’s basketball team.

    Though to be fair, that was probably true before Calhoun retired.

  361. Chuck Says:

    They’re on probation for failing to meet NCAA academic standards.

    Only Division I program to get caught.

    Calhoun leaves and the program goes to shit..or, they were good because they were cheating like everyone else and only started sucking because they got caught.

    You know, like the steriod guys.

  362. Raul Says:

    The NCAA is a joke when it comes to suspensions and punishments.

    Everyone cheats.

  363. Chuck Says:

    Even John Calipari?

  364. Raul Says:

    Is the Pope Catholic?

  365. Lefty33 Says:

    @353 – Make it 3 with a four game series against the Astros next.

  366. Raul Says:

    5-3 Yankees lead in the bottom of the 9th

    Rafael Soriano gives up a lead off homer to Saltalamacchia.

    Fuck me.

  367. Raul Says:

    So after a grounder with two outs bounces off Soriano’s glove for a hit, he gets Ellsbury to ground out to him.

    5-4 Yankees.
    A game that should never have been that close.

  368. Chuck Says:

    Mike Lowell’s an analyst on MLBNetwork..he’s pretty good, although his accent is stronger than I remember.

  369. Raul Says:

    Isn’t Lowell Puerto Rican?

  370. Raul Says:

    Jim Calhoun
    Mike Krzyzewski
    Jim Boeheim
    Bob Knight
    Lute Olson
    Rick Pitino
    John Calipari
    John Chaney
    Lou Carnesecca

    Rank em 1-5

    We can probably assume Wooden and Dean Smith speak for themselves.

  371. Mike Felber Says:

    Hard to disagree with most of the above statements. Though I do not think Pudge was using. Ryan…Well he was a physical freak & lifted in a dedicated way before others. Why he got better, could have been drugs, but he did not bulk up, & unlike a Bonds, did not reach power abilities he never had even when young.

  372. John Says:

    Your current NL Wildcard Standings:

    Cardinals (75-68)
    Dodgers (74-69) 1 GB
    Pirates (72-70) 2.5 GB
    Brewers (71-70) 3 GB
    Phillies (71-70) 3 GB
    Diamondbacks (70-71) 4 GB

    Wow

  373. Chuck Says:

    For the most part, I think managing/coaching is overrated, especially at the college level.

    Kids don’t go to school to get an education any more, even at places like Duke or Notre Dame.

    Guys like Grant Hill or Ray Allen, who got degrees and played four years don’t happen, graduation rates count the scrubbies who don’t play and the team managers.

  374. Chuck Says:

    Interesting article in the Daily News….

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/agents-ny-mets-david-wright-investigated-major-league-baseball-aided-players-performance-enhancing-drugs-article-1.1158066

  375. Patrick Says:

    John, I can tell you don’t watch any Yankee games. Jeter makes one great play after another. Last week against the O’s, he threw a guy out from 10 feet in LF behind 3B on a jump throw and laid out behind 2B and turned a bullet into a 6-4-3. Both plays were as good as any he’s ever made.

    Harold Reynolds was just saying last night what a great fielder Jeter is because his footwork is always perfect.

    Jeter, Cano and Granderson. Strong up the middle has carried the Yanks.

    Why does Mike get to be Coach K and not Bobby?

    Knight
    Krzyzewski
    Roy Williams
    Calhoun
    Pitino
    Boeheim

    Trout
    Miggy Cab
    Cano
    Hamilton
    Beltre

    I’d say Jeter is somewhere around 10th

  376. Patrick Says:

    @374 It makes sense that agents would juice their clients in more ways than one.

    Chuck, recruiting aside, I think college basketball is where the coach can have the most impact on the game of any sport.

  377. Chuck Says:

    I agree Patrick, but only because of roster size..a head coach and two or three assistants for 12-15 players is a better ratio than 8/60.

  378. Raul Says:

    Albert Pujols now has 475 career homers.
    I’m still not convinced he will hit 600. But congratulations to him.

  379. Chuck Says:

    I’m with you on that, Raul.

  380. Chuck Says:

    Semi-finalists for HOF Frick Award (broadcaster category)

    Joe Angel, Richie Ashburn, Alan Ashby, Bert Blyleven, Lou Boudreau, Thom Brennaman, Rodger Brulotte, Joe Buck, Steve Busby, Skip Caray, Joe Castiglione, Tom Cheek, Don Chevrier, Gary Cohen, Jerry Doggett, Jacques Doucet, Dick Enberg, Ed Farmer, Ray Fosse, Hank Greenwald, Tom Grieve, Tom Hamilton, Ken Harrelson, Mark Holtz, Pat Hughes, Jim Hunter, Todd Kalas, Bill King, Mike Krukow, Duane Kuiper, Eric Nadel, Joe Nuxhall, Phil Rizzuto, Ron Santo, Mike Shannon, Charlie Slowes, Dewayne Staats, Steve Stone, Pete Van Wieren, Mike Wilner and Bert Wilson.

    No joke, a third of the guys on this list I’ve never heard of, much less heard.

    Another handful are unlistenable..coughThomBrennamancough.

    A couple of others..Rizzuto/Ashburn..are in as players and doubt they’d get double billing.

    So, to me, it comes down to Ken Harrelson and, sadly, Joe Buck.

  381. Bob Says:

    125 homers in the next 9 years ? With Trout and Trumbo!!! He will get there.

  382. Chuck Says:

    On this date in 1965, Willie Mays became the fifth player in history to reach 500 career homers.

    On this date in 1971, Frank Robinson became the 11th.

    In the first 95 years of baseball..five guys reached the mark..over the next six years, six players reached it.

    I’ve said this all along..some of the greatest offensive players in history played all of or most of their careers during the pitching era of the mid-sixties to the late seventies.

    I will give the caveat that expansion may have played a part in that to a certain extent, but for the most part these guys don’t get the same recognition.

    If you think Sammy Sosa was a better hitter than Ernie Banks then you should be banned from ever watching baseball again.

  383. Bob Says:

    People know it. Ernie Banks can charge $90.00 for his autograph. And it would be worth it.

  384. Raul Says:

    Since Alex Rodriguez’s age-32 season, he’s hit 93 HR.

    You can’t assume Pujols will even finish out his contract, much less guarantee he’ll keep the same HR pace or stay healthy.
    125 HR is a lot of HR.

    My feeling is that he probably doesn’t get there. And if he does, it’ll be just barely.

    Now if Pujols hits 45 HR in 2013, I’ll revise my position.

  385. Raul Says:

    Love Ernie Banks.
    My uncle met him once. Next to Bill Russell, he said Banks was the nicest man he ever met.

    Banks is probably a top 10 player all time.

  386. Lefty33 Says:

    Dick Enberg is a legend and neither Krukow, Cohen nor Stone are that bad.

    But I hear you Chuck that no one on this list is truly compelling.

    Except for The Scooter.

    All of his broadcasts with Bill White should either be in Cooperstown or in the Broadcasters Hall of Fame. Between his WW on his scorecards and all of the malapropisms, those alone, need to get him in as a broadcaster.

    “Uh-oh, deep to left-center, nobody’s gonna get that one! Holy cow, somebody got it!”

    “Bouncer to third, they’ll never get him! No, why don’t I just shut up!”

    “Well, that kind of puts the damper on even a Yankee win.” (He was still on the air, just after a game, when he heard that Pope Paul VI had just died)

    “I like radio better than television because if you make a mistake on radio, they don’t know. You can make up anything on the radio.”

  387. Raul Says:

    No way on Joe Buck.
    Dick Enberg before Joe Buck.

    Todd Kalas is the son of the legendary Harry Kalas

  388. Chuck Says:

    In seven years in Pittsburgh, Barry Bonds hit 146 homers, an average of 24.8 per season with a career high of 34.

    In fifteen seasons in San Francisco, playing in a notoriously difficult park for a lefty hitter, he hit 616, an average of 41 per season..and that includes a season where he played 14 games.

    That’s 16 homers per year for 15 years. That’s 240 homers.

    You can give him the benefit of the doubt that as he matured as a player his yearly average would have gone up, but you have to negate that in some form because of his home park.

    With his injury history, it’s pretty much a given, just as with McGwire, that steriods added a few years to his career, maybe as many as a half dozen.

    We’ll never know for certain, but a reasonable argument could be made that without steriods Bonds doesn’t reach 500.

  389. Chuck Says:

    I agree with Enberg, but his name was made doing other things, I just don’t see him getting in just on his baseball work.

    I met him in the press box at Maryvale this year, nice guy and I was shocked to see him, most of the big name broadcasters don’t work ST, or at least not road games.

    I almost asked him to sign my media guide..I ended up not because I knew I would have gotten fired on the spot, but I promise you the thought crossed my mind.

  390. Raul Says:

    Yeah when I think of Enberg, I think football. Not baseball.

  391. Patrick Says:

    I have to give the Cardinals credit for not signing Pujols. They got Pujols’ first “half” of his career for a bargain. He’d have to hit over 800 HR for his current contract to be worth it.

    ARod is the perfect example. No one would be surprised if he only hits 30 more career HR.

    I’d say Albert will challenge 650 and fizzle. No shame there, except on the Angels for paying over $1,000,000 per HR.

  392. Chuck Says:

    I was in the press box in Scottsdale about five years ago for the AFL Championship game, it’s a VIP show with all the GM’s and stuff walking around.

    I’m sitting with a buddy who at the time covered the Rays for MLB.com, just watching BP and waiting for the buffet.

    Steve Cobb comes in and is with Frank Robinson, who at the time had the MLB VP position that Joe Torre has now.

    It says right on our credential “No Autographs”, and it’s common knowledge that the press box and private park areas are off-limits too.

    Cobb walks around introducing Robinson to some of the AFL staff and what not, my friend gets up, walks over to him, sticks out his hand and asks him to sign his media guide.

    Robinson had this look on his face like the guy nutted him, 30 seconds later my friend is packing up his laptop and stuff and is escorted from the park.

    It was all I could do to restrain myself from asking, but I knew what the result would be.

    One of the easiest decisions was turning down the opportunity to interview Bryce Harper.

  393. Bob Says:

    Sale vs. Verlander tonight. I am torn. Earlier this year, ( before Memorial Day) I went to one of those card shows. I purchased 16 rookie Chris Sale cards for .50 a piece.
    Though to be honest, I am leaning towards King Felix as of a week ago.

  394. Chuck Says:

    “Isn’t Lowell Puerto Rican?”

    Yes, and his mother is Cuban.

    Even after moving to the States, he was raised speaking Spanish in the house.

    My wife is like that, her dad spoke OK English he learned just by working and being around it, her mom spoke almost none.

    She still speaks Spanish when talking to her sister and brothers, she was on the phone the other day with her college roommate, I asked my daughter who called when the phone rang and she said, “I don’t know, but Mommy’s talking Spanish”. From there it’s pretty easy to figure out.

  395. Chuck Says:

    Lowell had a great one-liner last night.

    Idiot Kenny asked him what the benefit was to the Rockies’ pitch count philosophy was, and Lowell answered, “So next year their bullpen would lead the league in Tommy John procedures”.

    Kenny, of course, didn’t get it.

  396. Chuck Says:

    I think it was longer than five years ago, maybe seven or so.

    In 2008, I believe, Team USA was here training for the World Cup while their new facility was being built in North Carolina.

    Robinson was the manager, and I went to a couple of practices/games without my credential just so I could get him to sign something. (No luck)

    One game in Surprise I was working and was sitting with a couple of other media guys and was talking with Ernie Young, who was the hitting coach (and manager now).

    He was talking hitting of course, about guys like Jay Bruce and Longoria, etc.

    We see this guy walking down with a binder in his hand and walks up to where we were, takes a page out of the book and hands it to Young with a Sharpie and asks, “Can you get Frank to sign these?”

    It was one of those sleeve sheets with a half dozen Frank Robinson baseball cards.

    Young looks at the cards, looks at the guy and says no. Guy turns and walks away and Young goes, “asshole has some big ones”.

  397. Raul Says:

    I don’t know if I would want to sign for anyone if I was a player.

    So many of these scumbags get kids to sign their crap for them.

  398. Chuck Says:

    I don’t know, I mean Josh Hamilton signs everything, I suppose you figure it out after awhile and learn to spot them coming.

    The best one was the one with Lincecum in Scottsdale..only time I ever said anything to a dealer.

  399. Chuck Says:

    I’d rather sign and be wary of who or what then to be a complete dick like Billy Butler and not sign anything.

    Ichiro doesn’t sign either, but he also makes fun of the people..swears at them in Japanese or pretends to not speak English.

  400. Chuck Says:

    Remember Kaz Sazaki?

    I was walking off the practice fields in Peoria and some of the guys had stopped to sign on their way in..Sazaki was signing and turned to go inside and some guy went postal on him because he didn’t get his picture signed.

    So, Sazaki walks over to him, takes the picture, turns and says something in Japanese to his interpreter.

    He handed the interpreter the picture who signed it and handed it to the guy and walked away.

    It was funny as shit. The guys just stood there like he saw Elvis’ ghost.

  401. Raul Says:

    Lol well Billy Butler’s signature won’t ever be highly valuable so there’s no reason for him not to sign.

    No matter how rare his autograph might be, it won’t be worth much more than a couple of Happy Meals.

  402. Raul Says:

    Lol. Being a dick to a player isn’t going to help you

  403. Chuck Says:

    This is how an autograph seeker gets revenge.

    I grew up in a town that had a Double A team, when I was a kid we’d go hang outside the clubhouse and get autographs or wait for them to walk by coming or going from the field.

    I have a pretty impressive collection of guys on their way up, starting with Bobby Bonds and going all the way up to guys like Cory Snyder and Jay Bell.

    I looked it up..it was 1971..I was 13..Quebec City was part of the Montreal organization.

    Remember Pepe Frias?

    I didn’t know anything about him other than he had a uniform, so I asked him to sign a ball, he does and hands it back.

    “Rico Carty”

    When we moved out here I’d go to Scottsdale to see the Giants because Peoria wasn’t built yet, I’m walking around and guess who is in camp as a minor league infield instructor?

    Pepe Frias.

    So, I get in the car, drive 30 miles home, get the ball, and drive 30 miles back.

    I wait in front of the clubhouse and here comes Frias and I stop him, and proceed to tell him the story and show him the ball.

    He kind of has this sheepish look on his face, takes the ball and signs it..”Sorry, Pepe Frias”

    That’s what happens when a player is a dick.

  404. Raul Says:

    Hahahaha

  405. John Says:

    “John, I can tell you don’t watch any Yankee games. Jeter makes one great play after another. ”

    Every “great play” Jeter has made for the last 5 years or so is a play that a normal shortstop makes look routine.

  406. Chuck Says:

    When I first moved here, I worked for my wife’s uncle at a golf course..he was a former player in Puerto Rico and had worked for the Padres for awhile.

    The Mariners had their annual golf tourmament there one year and most of the players came out..Randy Johnson, Griffey, etc.

    This was, I think, 1994..

    I got to play in the tournament and was in a group with Chris Bosio..he had pitched a no-hitter the year before.

    This guy is at the beverage cart buying a couple of cold ones and sees Bosio walking towards him, he’s fishing through his bag looking for something to have signed, and finally just takes two cans of Budweiser out of his cooler and asks Bosio if he would sign them.

    Bosio signs one, hands it back to the guy, opens the other one and walks away drinking the guy’s beer.

    I figured out right away he was a down to earth guy and liked to pop a few and that I was going to have a good day.

  407. Chuck Says:

    John’s real name is Brian Kenny..he wouldn’t know great if it walked up and pissed on his leg.

  408. Chuck Says:

    Happy 44th birthday Bernie Williams.

    Under normal circumstances he may have received a few years of lukewarm HOF support, but with the ballot strength of the next few years, I’d be surprised if he’s on more than two or three tops.

    Memo to Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte..his HOF chances are better than both of yours..so pay attention.

  409. Mike Felber Says:

    Those are good stories Chuck!

    Though Bonds was not nearly as fragile as Macliar. And at the end both broke down due to stereotypical PED related injuries. I do not know if the drugs added much time at all to Bonds, though added power + better endurance over a season. He had increased power to a degree in SF< & all indications are he juiced from '99 onward.

    Methinks he would have had over 600, but less than his Godfather. Because after 73 in '01, he was drawing unprecedented BB too, which also increased his value. Still, the difference between the otherworldly offense he reached for a few years & what he would have done is dramatic.

  410. Mike Felber Says:

    From ‘99 onwards when juicing/cheating, though Bonds did not run much, he was rarely caught stolen. 69-11.

    Is that not ironic?

  411. Mike Felber Says:

    No way to get around it: Trout is having a historic season. Does he look as great in the field as the #s suggest? Sure he could fade like others, be a Lynn or Allen, not super consistent-but with all those tools so young, he has a good chance to be an all time great.

    http://baseballmusings.com/?p=88174

    For 13 straight years Willie Mays LOWEST bWAR was 7.2. This level of excellence (& health) is extremely hard to match.

  412. Chuck Says:

    Showing restraint..not going there.

  413. John Says:

    “John’s real name is Brian Kenny..he wouldn’t know great if it walked up and pissed on his leg.”

    Says the guy who doesn’t think Jim Thome was great.

    Shit, imagine if you guys evaluated Mark Reynolds’ hitting like you evaluate Jeter’s fielding. “Who cares if he doesn’t get to very many balls? When he does make contact, the ball goes really far!”

  414. John Says:

    14th inning in Baltimore. Tampa not going down without a fight.

  415. Chuck Says:

    “Shit, imagine if you guys evaluated Mark Reynolds’ hitting like you evaluate Jeter’s fielding. “Who cares if he doesn’t get to very many balls? When he does make contact, the ball goes really far!”

    That’s exactly how Shaun evaluated Mark Reynolds’ hitting, and I think you too..at least at first.

    “I don’t care if he strikes out 200 times a year and hits .215 providing he hits 40 bombs.”

  416. Chuck Says:

    “Says the guy who doesn’t think Jim Thome was great.”

    He wasn’t.

    Great homer hitter and great player are two different things.

  417. Chuck Says:

    Found some guys who think stolen bases are cool.

    Billy Hamilton MiLB POY.

    Right.

  418. John Says:

    “I don’t care if he strikes out 200 times a year and hits .215 providing he hits 40 bombs.”

    “I don’t care if he doesn’t get to 75 ground balls a year that a normal SS would, providing he makes that one play where he ranges to his right and jumps up and throws guys out twice a year.”

  419. John Says:

    “He wasn’t.

    Great homer hitter and great player are two different things.”

    I’ll let Harmon Killebrew know he was crap. Can you tell McCovey?

  420. Chuck Says:

    #418..Nice comeback. Really means you have no argument and just want to have the last word.

    #419..What do Killebrew and McCovey have to do with Thome? Other than nothing, of course.

  421. Chuck Says:

    Orioles won in 14.

    Bastards.

    Wish I still had my “Baltimore Blows” tee shirt.

  422. Chuck Says:

    So, Jon Heyman thinks Rafael Soriano will opt out of his $14 million for next year.

    Hmmm.

    Voluntary pay-cut..don’t see that too often these days.

  423. Bob Says:

    It worked for ARod with the Yankees
    Mo is coming off a serios injury, and is not a long-term answer, as he just want 1 more healthy year. Could he get a 3-year deal in the marketplace? Not outlandish, IMO

  424. Raul Says:

    And like that, Derek Jeter ties Willie Mays for 11th place all-time in hits.

    Not bad for the worst shortstop of all time.

  425. John Says:

    “Not bad for the worst shortstop of all time.”

    What do hitting and fielding have to do with one another?

    @420, McCovey, Thome, and Killebrew were all low-average, high power players who weren’t particularly known for their fielding ability. Similar numbers altogether. But of course, McCovey breathed the same air as Hank Aaron, so I guess he was better.

  426. Raul Says:

    John, Derek Jeter will go down as the 2nd best SS ever.

    EVER.

    And every chance you get, you just talk shit about Jeter’s defense.

    Second best shortstop fucking ever.

    You went off for years about Tim Raines being the 2nd best lead off hitter ever. I mean, really dude.

    How much Jeter hate do you have? Because it looks like you hate Jeter more than you love Ryan Braun and Aaron Rodgers combined.

  427. Mike Felber Says:

    I do not know what could require restraint Chuck, most innocuous subjects around, how many HRs Bonds might have added w/juice. Especially since we are both very anti-PED. I think it could be 150 or close which is still huge, + all the BBs.

    I do not try to form alliances, but I just overwhelmingly agree with John. In baseball at least if you have enough power & hand eye coordination, absent the other defensive, athletic, running & fielding skills, you can still be extremely valuable, sometimes a deserved HOFer. Just because the dingers & walks mean that much.

    I have wondered: whaddya all thunk would be the effect if there were NO walks allowed? So that balls were called endlessly, but you could throw outside the zone ’till your arm fell off. Called strikes would become more of an issue, power hitters could not rack up as many BBs, but would get a few more pitches to hit. How do you think it would shape the game?

  428. Raul Says:

    Jay Cutler should shut the fuck up for the rest of his life.

  429. Mike Felber Says:

    Can this one talk? If his HgH jaw does not implode.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Cutler_%28bodybuilder%29

  430. Raul Says:

    The physiques may have been artificially enhanced in Ferigno’s day, but at least they looked human.
    That guy is enormous.

  431. Mike Felber Says:

    Big Lou had a comeback ~ 91, came in ~ 300 cut, bigger than he ever had been. More & better drugs mostly. You still trying to lose weight Raul?

  432. Chuck Says:

    #425..McCovey was better than Thome.

    I’ll give you Killebrew wasn’t a defensive stalwart and likely was a primary reason why a 500 HR guy had to wait four years to get in.

    Of course, with the garabage pitching and the DH, if Killer played today he’d be over 600, and then you’d really have no argument.

  433. Chuck Says:

    “I have wondered: whaddya all thunk would be the effect if there were NO walks allowed?”

    There would have to be some concession given..have a maximum # of pitches per AB, or at least a maximum number of pitches a batter could take. Or maybe calling the strike zone as it’s intended to be called.

    You just couldn’t leave things as they are, instead of having four hour games, you’d have four hour innings.

    Walks are overrated as it is, so if you were able to figure out a way to eliminate them while not impacting pitch counts or game length..no biggie.

  434. Patrick Says:

    John, I was unable to find the 2 plays that Jeter made against the O’s about 10 days ago. I’m surprised I couldn’t find them with all of the garbage on the internet.

    Anyway, it doesn’t matter. The only people who think Jeter is a bad SS are a bunch of pencil pushers who never crossed the white lines but they think they know more than the rest of us cavemen who have.

    John from Milwaukee knows more about playing the infield than Harold Reynolds!

    You’re so smart you don’t even have to watch the games. You get all of your info from an excel spreadsheet.

    Back on the Trout page, you were going off on your patented “RBI’s are worthless” rant and I took the time to quantify them for you, but guess what? Not one word from you. You just move on to the next sabr-fed delussion.

    Shame on me for ever getting drawn into a debate with a guy like you, or Shaun for that matter. Actually, you two seem like the same guy.

  435. Bob Says:

    And the Governor’s Cup goes to the Red Sox. The Pawtucket Red Sox, that is.

  436. Chuck Says:

    In defense of John, he’s a young kid who grew up in the “Asterisk Era” of steriods, expansion, franchise moves, the DH, pitch counts and closers and thinks this is how baseball has always been played.

    I’m not trying to be my normal condescending dickish self here, I’m serious..I have a 22 year old cousin who thinks exactly the same way.

    It is what it is, I don’t try and change his mind, just open it.

    I admit to being hoodwinked by McGwire and Sosa, but at the same time knew both those guys weren’t good enough to be doing what they were doing and something HAD to be up..just didn’t know what.

    Mike Trout is having a generational season..if you need WAR to tell you that, then your missing the big picture.

  437. Chuck Says:

    Further..if you’re sitting at the bar watching a game and a guy hits a ball up the middle that gets past Jeter, and your first thought is, “JJ Hardy eats that shit up”, then call over the bartender because you need a refill.

    First off, there’s no way to know that, it’s an assumption at best.

    Secondly, so what if he would have? As long as the runner doesn’t score, so what?

    The pitcher might be upset, but he threw the pitch in the first place, so if he is it should be at himself.

    Adam Dunn is a good OF. He doesn’t get to as many balls as Brett Gardner, but he makes the proper play on the balls he does get to.

    On the flip side, everyone makes the routine plays..so those extra plays Gardner gets to have a higher likelihood of an error because it’s more difficult.

    To say “Gardner saves more runs defensively than Dunn” isn’t true because they play for different teams with different pitching staffs and on different fields.

    The only way to answer that question with 100% certainty would be for Dunn to play LF for the Yankees under the EXACT same set of circumstances that Gardner did..which is impossible.

    Jeter’s not nearly the defensive player at 38 that he was at 28, but he’s not a liability either. No one can say with any certainty that his defense has cost the Yankees three or four wins any more than you can say JJ Hardy’s defense is responsible for three or four wins for Baltimore.

  438. Raul Says:

    Yankees vs Rays this weekend.

    Huge series.

  439. John Says:

    “Back on the Trout page, you were going off on your patented “RBI’s are worthless” rant and I took the time to quantify them for you, but guess what? Not one word from you. You just move on to the next sabr-fed delussion.”

    If you took Trout and put him on the Rangers, he would have about 10 WAR.
    If you took Trout and put him on the Astros, he would have about 10 WAR.

    If you took Trout and put him on the Yankees, he would have well over 100 RBI.
    If you took Trout and put him on the Astros, he would have about 50 RBI.

    If a player’s statistic can be CUT THE FUCK IN HALF by changing his surroundings, then it is a garbage statistic. Period.

    “The only people who think Jeter is a bad SS are a bunch of pencil pushers who never crossed the white lines but they think they know more than the rest of us cavemen who have.”

    Unlike you, Patrick, I’ve played SS. I know that just because you dive and get a ball, doesn’t mean you made a good play. If you get a late jump and dive to make a play, fine, you made the play, but you wouldn’t have made the one 1 foot to your left.

    29 other shortstops in the league get to that ball that you just dove for standing up and make it look easy.

    And they get to the ball you don’t get to, and make that look relatively easy as well.

    And they sometimes get a ball that you (and by you, I mean Jeter) have no chance, like, fucking none at, and they make the diving stab that Jeter makes on the ball everyone else considers ROUTINE.

    WATCH THE WHOLE PLAY if video allows you to. See in person. Jeter cannot move to his left, and hasn’t been able to for a decade. Just because he dives for a ball doesn’t mean it’s a good play.

    “John, Derek Jeter will go down as the 2nd best SS ever.
    EVER.
    And every chance you get, you just talk shit about Jeter’s defense.”

    Why would anyone not include a player’s defensive abilities at a PREMIUM POSITION when evaluating them. Do you want me to slobber over his dick like the rest of the media? Give him gold gloves when he’s the worst fielder at his position? Give him gold gloves when he isn’t the best SS ON HIS OWN TEAM?

    Or maybe judge him fairly, according to what he contributes on the offensive side of the ball (a ton) and what he contributes on the defensive side (negatively)?

    For some reason, people never shy away from taking their shots at Piazza’s defense. Nobody thought Piazza was some superstar glove-master just because he hit .300 every year. BECAUSE THE TWO ARE NOT RELATED.

    Jeter might be the third best SS ever (because, unless you ignore defense completely, like just pretend it’s not a thing, he’s not better than Ripken). But that’s solely because of his bat, and not the one play a week he makes in the field.

  440. John Says:

    “Adam Dunn is a good OF. He doesn’t get to as many balls as Brett Gardner, but he makes the proper play on the balls he does get to.”

    You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

    Adam Dunn might be the worst OFer in the history of the game.

    An inability to get to baseballs is PART OF EVALUATING A PLAYER. If a player gets to more balls, then he’s a better defensive player.

    “No one can say with any certainty that his defense has cost the Yankees three or four wins any more than you can say JJ Hardy’s defense is responsible for three or four wins for Baltimore.”

    You can say with SOME certainty. Because, if you haven’t noticed, a ball that gets by a SS is a hit. Some hits turn into runs. And runs (when given up) turn into losses. And if Hardy is getting to an extra 75 or 100 ground balls that Jeter isn’t getting to, then YES, it is saving his team runs, and therefore wins. The estimates for which have been derived correlatively and, while not exact, are better than saying: JETER JUST DOVE FOR A BALL CAPTAIN CLUTCH

  441. Raul Says:

    Well, they look at the number of plays that all shortstops make.
    Then they sort them from high to low. And since Jeter apparently ranks near the bottom often, they conclude he sucks.

    I dunno. I mean if you took a classroom of students and rated them by how long it took them to finish exams and sorted from the fastest to the longest, would that really tell you who was smart and who wasn’t?

    No one, ever, has seriously argued that Derek Jeter was Ozzie Smith.

    I mean, I’ll say this: if indeed Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop of all time, then these Yankees teams that have won 5 World Series with him at the most important position in the game have to be looked at as among the greatest offensive teams in the history of the league. Because how else can a franchise win 5 titles with THAT KIND of defensive inability?

    2009 Yankees. Right up there with the 1927 Yankees.
    LOL

  442. John Says:

    “John from Milwaukee knows more about playing the infield than Harold Reynolds!”

    Has it ever occurred to anyone that, moron though he may be, Reynolds (and other ballplayers in the media) don’t actually think that the SS who makes the fewest plays in the league every year isn’t actually a good SS, but rather don’t want to insult the most popular player on the most popular team in the country and turn viewers off their network?

  443. Patrick Says:

    You can’t open his mind. It’s Rtot-ed shut. He ignores any arguement that doesn’t benefit his point of view that he’s selling.

    I’m sure if you get John off of his high sabr horse he’s probably a good guy, and I don’t want to bash a US sailor, but this “Jeter sucks with the glove” thing has gone way too far.

    Not one guy who makes that claim backs it with anything other than massively incomplete data. Plus, they ignore the fielding data that is complete, like fielding pct and errors. Show me the groundballs that Jeter doesn’t field.

    Also, fielding is rarely acrobatic, not that Jeter can’t do that. Give me the guy that ALWAYS turns the routine ground ball into outs anytime.

  444. John Says:

    “I mean, I’ll say this: if indeed Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop of all time, then these Yankees teams that have won 5 World Series with him at the most important position in the game have to be looked at as among the greatest offensive teams in the history of the league. Because how else can a franchise win 5 titles with THAT KIND of defensive inability?”

    1) Didn’t they also win those titles with Posada as a catcher? Everyone seems pretty comfortable with saying he wasn’t a good defensive player.

    2) Offense and pitching? I mean, I’ve already said, IN THIS VERY THREAD, that Jeter’s offense is incredible and has, thoughout his career except 2010-2011, more than made up for his weak fielding ability to the point where he was pretty much always a top-3 SS and often the best in the game. So he, alone makes up for it by himself, and, when combined with the rest of a 200 million dollar payroll complete with great pitching and hitting, made the Yankees 5-time champs.

    Jeter costs his team, at his worst, around 2 wins the field with the glove. I mean, that’s very very bad, but it’s 2 wins. So, if he had been an average fielder, the Yankees would’ve won 103 games in those years instead of 101. But they won 101 which was more than enough to make all those playoff runs possible.

  445. John Says:

    “Also, fielding is rarely acrobatic, not that Jeter can’t do that. Give me the guy that ALWAYS turns the routine ground ball into outs anytime.”

    I’d rather have the guy that gets to more routine ground balls. League average SS make 50-100 more plays a year (that save singles) than Jeter. I’ll take that and 10 extra errors any day of the week and twice on Sunday. That way, I have 40-90 fewer guys on base per year which = good.

    Also remember: you can’t make an error on a ball you don’t get to.

  446. Raul Says:

    I really don’t see it.

    I don’t see how anyone can assign a win or a loss to a player and argue that it’s definitively accurate.

    Jesus. I mean now you’re reminding me of Posada. Really? The worst shortstop and catcher of the friggin era and they win 5 titles?

    Maybe they aren’t as bad as you guys say. Just admit it. No team wins titles with players (supposedly) that bad. Does not happen.

  447. John Says:

    “No team wins titles with players (supposedly) that bad.”

    They were good players, just bad fielders. Overall, they were all-star players in spite of their gloves. What’s the issue? Every team has some weaknesses. No team is going to have a 5-star player at every position, and 5 Cy Young candidates in the rotation and a lock-down bullpen all at once. So the Yankees had weak defense at SS and catcher. They had strong defense elsewhere (1B with Martinez/Teixeira, 3B with Boggs/Brosius) and their weak fielders were outstanding hitters.

    “I don’t see how anyone can assign a win or a loss to a player and argue that it’s definitively accurate.”

    It’s an estimate based on data. Guarantee that your company does the same thing in 1,000 different ways every day.

  448. Raul Says:

    We’re not gonna get into politics here, but John…as much of a numbers guy as you are, it’s befuddling to me how you can look at Paul Ryan’s budget and think that shit will actually fly.

    That’s all I wanted to say. This is a baseball site, but I gotta jab you a little bit. Hahaha

  449. Raul Says:

    Also,

    I’m afraid the Orioles will be tempted to keep Manny Machado at 3B next year.

  450. John Says:

    League average RF/9 for a SS during Jeter’s career is 4.54 and he’s at 4.09.

    If he were at 4.40-4.45 or so (I looked at a few years of this), he’d be about average when you consider the groundball rates, directional hitting tendencies, and strikeout rates of Yankee pitchers over the years.

    But he’s not. He’s a play every 3 games worse than that.

    And yet, he’s still a top-5, maybe top-3 SS of all-time.

    Again, in spite of that, his offense has been so historically dominant that he still ranks among the best overall players to ever play his position.

    But he shouldn’t get bonus points for fielding based on hitting .300.

  451. Raul Says:

    I actually think the Athletics are the more impressive team than Baltimore.

    Baltimore, it was thought, was on the cusp for a few years now with Jones, Markakis and Wieters.

    But with the Rangers and Pujols joining the Angels, everyone figured Oakland and Seattle would battle for the worst record in the modern era.

    Nice job by Billy Beane this year. I mean maybe he got lucky, but his team is doing well and there is some solid talent on the farm.

  452. John Says:

    “it’s befuddling to me how you can look at Paul Ryan’s budget and think that shit will actually fly.”

    The Ryan Budget doesn’t balance the budget for 30 fucking years.

    The fact that Dems think that it’s too radical BECAUSE IT WILL CUT TOO MUCH says far more about them than it does about the budget, which is a good start at best.

  453. John Says:

    “Nice job by Billy Beane this year.”

    I’d love to just rub it in everyone’s faces. And maybe I’ll get to. But honestly, I’m puzzled.

    If he was sure he was going to compete and that the things he set up would work, it’s puzzling to me why he would trade his #1 starter before the season.

    Maybe there’s more in play than I know about. I dunno.

  454. Patrick Says:

    You assume that Jeter is not getting to ground balls, you don’t know that. Maybe the Yanks face more lefty hitters year in and year out. Maybe they K more of the oppostion. I have yet to see a stat that says Jeter missed any ground balls that he should have fielded besides errors.

    Show me where it says Jeter fielded only 600 of 700 chances and JJ Hardy fielded 690 of 700, then I’ll listen.

    Also, you state that Jeter costs the Yanks 2 hypothetical wins a year like it’s a fact. Those Orioles games that I keep refering to? Jeter won them both with his glove.

  455. Raul Says:

    Well, maybe it’s better to be lucky than good

  456. Patrick Says:

    The one thing you can’t take away from Beane is that he keeps finding young pitchers at an astounding rate. Their success begins and ends there.

  457. John Says:

    “Maybe the Yanks face more lefty hitters year in and year out.”

    Again, you should account for that…and when I was looking at it, I did.

    That’s why a hypothetical Yankee shortstop could be average with a below-average range factor.

    But not this far below average.

    It would be like saying “well, Robert Andino just makes more outs with the bat because he plays in a tough division against harder pitchers.” Perfectly true, but it’s not like he’d hit .300 in the NL West.

  458. John Says:

    “The one thing you can’t take away from Beane”

    5 playoff appearances with a 40 million dollar payroll?

  459. Chuck Says:

    “If you took Trout and put him on the Astros, he would have about 10 WAR.”

    The fuck he would.

  460. Raul Says:

    I will say this:

    I watched every game of the Yankees/Red Sox series, and A-Rod missed 2 balls that he should have gobbled up.

    One was a rocket shot about a step to his left. I want to give him a break on that one, but he sort of “Ole’d it” because he didn’t want to take it off the body.

    There was a shift so Jeter wasn’t anywhere near the ball anyway, but it was indicative of the limited range that A-Rod has now. If you watch enough games, you’ll notice that Cano fields most of the balls up the middle when they’re in doubleplay depth…probably because Jeter can’t shade to the middle as much.

  461. Chuck Says:

    “Unlike you, Patrick, I’ve played SS.”

    Time to let your T-ball career go.

  462. Patrick Says:

    “Unlike you, Patrick, I’ve played SS.”

    Hey John! I played SS for longer than you’ve been alive. Little League, HS, College and fast pitch softball. Ages 8 to 42. You actually are a bigger ass than I thought. Sailor or not, fuck off.

  463. Chuck Says:

    “He’s a play every 3 games worse than that.”

    RF=(assists + putouts)/GP

    So, over 162 that’s about 72 plays per season.

    Or one every 20 1/3 innings.

    If Jorge Posada threw out 72 more runners trying to steal, Jeter would be league average defensively by doing nothing more than tagging a runner.

    More 4-6-3 DP’s would have given him a few extra PO’s, without doing anything but catching a 20 ft. throw.

    Having a bad 3B which forced him to shade more to his right and conversely get to fewer balls to his left has little to do with his below league average range factor.

    Glad I was able to clear that up.

  464. Chuck Says:

    “5 playoff appearances with a 40 million dollar payroll”

    And Sandy Alderson’s/Grady Fuson’s players.

    Don’t forget that.

    They would have had five postseason appearances with George Costanza as GM.

  465. Raul Says:

    SERENITY NOW

  466. Raul Says:

    I’m a little disappointed.

    The Pirates have lost 6 in a row and are now 3 games back in the NL Wildcard

  467. Chuck Says:

    And close to .500

  468. Raul Says:

    In case you haven’t been paying attention…and you haven’t…Alex Gordon leads the Majors in doubles with 47.

    Since 1977, only two players have cracked 50 doubles for the Royals:

    Billy Butler with 51 in 2009.
    Hal McRae with 54 in 1977.

    BTW, that ‘77 Royals team was 102-60.

  469. Lefty33 Says:

    What’s happening with the Pirates is not all that surprising.

    They’ve been living off of the mirage of not being able to hit all year combined with a pitching staff that was doing things they shouldn’t be capable of doing.

    The pitching has fallen off of a cliff in the 2nd half (down to 9th in ERA and 13th in WHIP) and the reality is still there that the Pirates can’t hit. (22nd in runs, 24th in average, 27th in OBP)

    Sure they hit homeruns but when you never have anybody on base that’s sort of hollow and at the same time they also don’t walk, don’t steal bases, and they K a lot. It’s a very undisciplined cowboy-like approach.

    No team is making the playoffs with a team structured like that.

  470. Chuck Says:

    “What’s happening with the Pirates is not all that surprising.’

    No question.

    I didn’t expect them to make the postseason, just wishful thinking that they’d break their losing streak.

  471. Raul Says:

    According to ESPN.com, Yadier Molina and Ryan Braun each have a 6.0 WAR.

    And Michael Bourn, at 5.8 is the 10th most valuable player in baseball.

  472. Chuck Says:

    This very well be the most shockingly ignorant article I’ve ever read.

  473. Chuck Says:

    Read this one before the other one.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8369941/history-shows-washington-nationals-shut-stephen-strasburg-too-soon

  474. Raul Says:

    I …I’m abou 80% through the Grantland article and I can’t take it.

  475. John Says:

    If, while playing shortstop, you’re satisfied with just not making errors on balls hit right at you, then you’re probably a terrible shortstop.

  476. John Says:

    Raul, since you mentioned it: Matt Forte was the only player to catch more of Jay Cutler’s passes than Tramon Williams last night.

  477. Chuck Says:

    This Jayzerli guy is a doctor.

    That said, he writes like a fifth grader. My daughter’s grammar and sentence structure is better than that.

  478. Chuck Says:

    “If, while playing shortstop, you’re satisfied with just not making errors on balls hit right at you, then you’re probably a terrible shortstop.”

    If, while playing shortstop, you’re afraid to make an error, then you’re probably a terrible shortstop.

    Errors happen. No one tries to make them.

    Even Ryan Braun and his 36 errors at third or whatever it was didn’t make any on purpose, he gave 100% on every ball and MORE OFTEN THAN NOT made the play.

    I don’t like the word “elite” because it’s over-used to an extent..obviously Braun is an elite hitter and Vizquel is an elite fielder.

    Because of the intracacies and unmeasurable facts which can never be measured enough to make any defensive metric worthwhile I believe there are more “elite” hitters than defenders.

  479. John Says:

    Comparing Hardy and Jeter defensively reminds me of an old quote from The Office.

    “What don’t I like about Jim? Well, he’s not a very hard worker. I can spend all day working on a project, and he’ll work on that exact same project and finish it in half an hour. So…that should tell you something”

  480. John Says:

    “If, while playing shortstop, you’re afraid to make an error, then you’re probably a terrible shortstop.”

    I agree completely.

    That’s why I’m more impressed with someone who gets to extra balls and (because of that fact) makes extra errors then someone who doesn’t get those balls in the first place.

    “Even Ryan Braun and his 36 errors at third or whatever it was didn’t make any on purpose, he gave 100% on every ball and MORE OFTEN THAN NOT made the play.”

    Who said he was dogging it?

  481. Raul Says:

    If a guy makes an error and nobody scores….and another guy doesn’t get to a ball and nobody scores, what’s the fucking difference?

  482. Chuck Says:

    Your comment implied it.

    “you’re satisfied with just not making errors on balls hit right at you”

    Sounds like Hanley Ramirez.

    Letting balls go by that would be playable but difficult just to pad your stats.

  483. Bob Says:

    Possibly the number of pitches the pitcher has thrown.

  484. Raul Says:

    I mean we’re the Yankees allowing a shitload of runs because of Jeter’s defense?
    1. You’d have to definitively show he was responsible.
    2. If the team didn’t allow significantly more runs due to Jeter, then everyone needs to shut the fuck up about him.

  485. Patrick Says:

    -I suffered through both articles. wow. Regardless of their point of view, both were hard to read from every aspect.

    -Yeah John, that’s what I said. Anyway, for me to respond to this Jeter topic again will take someone showing me a number in regards to ground balls he didn’t get to that were gettable.

    -Do you think you’ll ever see someone pay Michael Bourn the 10th best contract? Right, no, you’ll never see it. Why? Because GM’s don’t pay attention to WAR.

  486. Chuck Says:

    That Sussman guy’s a tool.

    Funny how he ripped the other guy for not providing evidence and doesn’t provide any of his own.

  487. Chuck Says:

    What would possess someone to write an article ripping someone else anyway?

    Would Kurkjian write something ripping Rosenthal?

    Have I written anything ripping Rob Neyer?

    If that’s the guy’s opinion and he presents a legitimate argument, which he clearly did, then respect what he said and move on..agreeing or disagreeing is an individual thing.

    And for the record..pitch counts and innings limits CAUSE injuries, they don’t reduce them.

  488. Raul Says:

    Tim Kurkjian wouldn’t rip anyone. That guy is too nice for that.

  489. Chuck Says:

    I suppose in a way that’s my point..even if something was so out of the box, the “pros” wouldn’t say anything.

    Kurkjian would probably send whomever an email and it would stay private and that would be that.

  490. Chuck Says:

    Pirates lost again..snap…to the Cubs no less.

  491. Chuck Says:

    **Paging Lefty**Whistles**

    I know it’s a Friday night, but you’re married with kids and are home watching Hannah Montana reruns…

    You live in the Philly area and probably can confirm this, which is why I’m asking..

    Apparently your idea/suggestion that Chase Utley move to third is a done deal, and come next March that’s where he’ll be.

  492. Chuck Says:

    Washington @ Atlanta

    1-1, bottom 8, one out.

    Harper up against a lefty.

    Tried to drag bunt a hit.

    He had homered earlier.

    To left off a hanging curveball.

    He tried to drag bunt a hit.

    Thanks for reading

  493. Raul Says:

    Eduardo Nunez just fouled up a routine grounder.

    It increased the Rays lead over the Yankees to 6-4 in the top of the 9th with 2 outs.

    So yeah, I’d rather have had Derek Fucking Jeter in the game.

  494. Chuck Says:

    Check your Twitter Raul..I just re-tweeted the same thing from Barry Bloom of MLB.com, who’s at the game

  495. Chuck Says:

    I loved David Cone as a player..going back to before he was drafted by KC.

    But as an announcer…meh…

    Memo to John..

    Someone’s personality..Curt Schilling..doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not I like a player.

    One of the great miracles of life is trying to understand why Cone’s not in jail..big salary, big lawyers can do a lot for you. Just ask Rose, Bonds and Clemens.

    And Raines.

  496. Lefty33 Says:

    @491- Actually it was Nemo in 3-D but good job being in the Disney household.

    Everything that I’m seeing is that they will try Utley at 3B.

    Inquirer beat writer David Murphy did a piece a few weeks ago where he said that based on the Phillies 2013 financials plus the lack of a cost effective 3B on the FA market he pretty much saw no other alternative but to give Utley, Ruiz’s name has also been thrown around as possibly getting a few games at Third as well, every chance at the job.

    Frandsen has been awesome in the 2nd half but he’s not going to hit .340 forever.

    If the Phillies don’t move Utley they’re going to have dick at 3B next year while Utley, Galvis, and Caesar Hernandez all could be major league caliber 2B.

    To me unless they do something retarded like make a play for Youk the infield should be Howard, Galvis, Rollins, and Utley with Frandsen and Hernandez or cheap-o wily FA veteran hack filling things out.

  497. Chuck Says:

    I think it’s pretty cool the Phils recalled Darin Ruf.

    They’re using him in LF and I’ve heard they want him to play winter ball to get further game action..next year he may be an important piece of the roster.

    Some LF, give Howard some time off against lefties or DH in interleague, first PH option off the bench.

  498. Lefty33 Says:

    Personally I’m not drinking the Ruf Kool-Aid.

    To me he is another in a long line of guys like Matt Rizzotti and Steve DeAngelis that put up big numbers at Reading only to crap out at the next level and never make an impact in The Show.

    Everything that I’ve seen and read about Ruf suggests that he is a shitty LF and that the Phillies are spinning things hard to suggest otherwise.

    I’ll believe it when I see it that at 26 he’s still “a prospect” or that he actually matters at all.

  499. Chuck Says:

    Oh, I agree…he was in the AFL last year and Rizzoti is exactly who I thought of. Cody Overbeck too.

  500. Chuck Says:

    He wasn’t an original Phillie either, but you could throw in Tagg Bozied too.

    That guy was supposed to be an All-Star..just goes to show NCAA batting titles don’t mean shit.

  501. Chuck Says:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_09_15_anamlb_kcamlb_1&mode=box#gid=2012_09_15_anamlb_kcamlb_1&mode=video

    Never ever ever ever take out your starting pitcher in the 8th or 9th inning with a shutout and not in a position to lose the game.

    Ever, fucking ever.

    Once you get into the ninth, innings/pitch counts are out the window anyway, you’ve almost committed to a complete game.

    Zach Greinke threw 109 pitches in 8 and a thirds, Ernesto Frieri lost the game with four pitches.

    I love Scioscia..he’s as anti-sabermetric/pitch count/status quo as anyone, but he really fucked the dog on this one.

    The look on Greinke’s face was priceless.

  502. Raul Says:

    Hey now, 109 pitches is a lot for a rookie in April.

    What’s that?
    Greinke is a veteran and former Cy Young winner?

    Oh…

  503. Chuck Says:

    Happy #57 Robin Yount..

  504. John Says:

    Seconded, @503.

    “Letting balls go by that would be playable but difficult just to pad your stats.”

    Ok, not sure of anyone who does that.

    I certainly don’t think Jeter purposefully lets balls get by him. Just that his lateral movement and reaction skills are poor, and he’s physically not quick enough to get to very many balls. He’s got good hands, and makes plays on the balls that he can get to, but that’s significantly less important than getting to balls in the first place.

  505. Raul Says:

    Can someone show me the number of runs teams have scored due to Jeter not reaching a ball he should have?
    And can someone show me proof that he should have reached that ball?

  506. Mike Felber Says:

    C’mon Raul this can only be estimated. But however you slice measuring where balls are hit, there speed, his reaction time & range-he gives back some value in the field playing this crucial position. Though his offense was good enough this year to give him more than marginal value, & we all say he is an all time great SS.

  507. Chuck Says:

    “And can someone show me proof that he should have reached that ball?”

    Until that question can be answered definitively, defensive metrics are nothing more than a guess.

    If you’re hanging your hat on a guess, you might want to stop wearing them.

  508. Raul Says:

    That being the case, I must request that any bashing of Jeter’s defense begin with “we estimate”.

  509. Chuck Says:

    They really can’t do that Raul, because it would be an admission that, you know, sabermetrics suck.

    “Advanced metrics say Jeter sucks”

    “Advanced metrics seem to suggest Jeter sucks”

    If they “seem to suggest”, then they’re really not all that advanced, are they?

  510. Raul Says:

    It just gets murky.

    Does Jeter fail to get to some balls? Yeah. He’s like 39 years old. And I get upset when he does (or anyone else for that matter).

    But how does one prove he SHOULD have gotten to that ball? And if no runs are scored as a result, how did he hurt the team? He makes pitchers throw more? Fair point. But then show me that Yankees pitchers have pitched more specifically due to Jeter’s performance.

    You get into this whole mess.
    And in the end you come out with “Adam Everett is twice as good as Jeter.”

    Yunel Escobar is 4th in espn’s DWAR.
    Alcides Escobar is 13th.

    People will say that flawed metrics are better than none at all.
    In this case, I’m telling you it’s better to go with the eye test than to rely on those ratings.

  511. Chuck Says:

    Relying on stats of any kind is compensation for not having eyes.

    Stats tell you what happened, they don’t tell you how or why.

    Which are, you know, important.

  512. Raul Says:

    Well it’s like that old saying when a guy hits a blooper for a single:

    It’ll show up as a screaming liner in the box score tomorrow.

  513. Chuck Says:

    Jeter shades to his right to cover the hole because of a weak fielding 3B.

    Rickie Weeks had to shade to his left to cover for a range limited 1B.

    If the metrics are to be taken seriously, they should be able to account for those factors.

    Desmond Jennings lost a fly ball in the sun yesterday..he’ll be penalized for not making a play in his “zone”.

    If he had dropped it, then he should be penalized..but not because he was unable to make the play because of outside influences.

  514. Raul Says:

    Since the All Star Break, Braves pitcher Mike Minor has a 2.28 ERA in 75 innings.

  515. Bob Says:

    And yet people are talking about another Braves pitcher.

  516. Raul Says:

    RA Dickey goes against Cliff Lee and the Phillies tonight in an attempt to match Gio Gonzalez for the League lead in wins.

    I really hope Dickey wins the Cy Young this year.

  517. Bob Says:

    Gonna be some close calls in both leagues.

  518. Raul Says:

    there you go, Bob…

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/a-fans-desperate-plea-to-red-sox-owner-john-henry-20120914

  519. Bob Says:

    Raul, thank you.

  520. Chuck Says:

    That’s awesome

  521. John Says:

    “Jeter shades to his right to cover the hole because of a weak fielding 3B.”

    Jeter has had great fielding 3B’s too.
    Jeter has had great fielding 2B’s, and terrible fielding 2B’s.
    Jeter has had thrown to great fielding 1B’s and poor fielding 1B’s.

    The only constant in all that is that HE has gotten to fewer balls than any other SS, consistently, for over a decade.

    Stop making excuses for him. He’s a weak fielder. I don’t care that he’s popular. I do care that he’s a historically great hitter and he’s a HOFer because of that. But it’s irrelevent to his defensive prowess which is fucking nothing.

  522. Chuck Says:

    “He’s a weak fielder.’

    Says you and some irrelevant metrics, which mean fucking nothing.

  523. John Says:

    Also, and I’ve made this point before, if a player shades one way to make up for a weak teammate and thus gets to fewer balls going the other way, how is that limiting his number of chances? He just gets to balls his weak teammate doesn’t get to and sacrifices balls up the middle. Really, he should get to the same number of balls he always does. Which is, not very many for Jeter.

  524. John Says:

    “Says you and some irrelevant metrics, which mean fucking nothing”

    Honestly, Chuck, I could give a shit about your opinion.

    You said that Adam Dunn is a good outfielder.

    Credibility, gone.

  525. Chuck Says:

    “Honestly, Chuck, I could give a shit about your opinion.”

    Then stop responding to them, dumbass.

  526. Chuck Says:

    Derek Jeter’s a weak fielder.

    Credibility, gone.

    Too easy.

  527. John Says:

    Except he is. If you ever ACTUALLY watched, like watched a whole play, he’s slow to get over to baseballs and always has been. The metrics just help clarify how weak – which is, to say VERY.

    If instead, you watch with the same mentality as the typical NYC sports fan “OMG JETER MADE THE FLIP PLAY AND RAN INTO THE STANDS AND AROD IS A CHOKER” then sure, your opinion can be that Jeter is good at fielding.

    But, as with Adam Dunn, you’d be wrong.

  528. Raul Says:

    During Ken Griffey Jr’s first 11 years with the Mariners, he posted a DWAR of 9.7.
    During Kenny Lofton’s first 11 years with the Indians, he posted a DWAR of 14.7

    Griffey played in 1,535 games.
    Lofton played in 1,366 games.

    I was a young kid in the 1990s.
    John, you were barely born.

    Trust me…Kenny Lofton was a fine defender. In fact, he was really good. But he wasn’t even in Ken Griffey Jr.’s league.

  529. Raul Says:

    The Tigers, Angels, Phillies, Yankees, Cubs, Mets and Dodgers may not make the playoffs.

    What would that be? About a billion dollars?

  530. John Says:

    “Trust me…Kenny Lofton was a fine defender. In fact, he was really good. But he wasn’t even in Ken Griffey Jr.’s league.”

    You’re right, Lofton wasn’t hitting 50 HR a year, and that’s how we should judge fielding.

    I didn’t watch every single game that both of them played, and neither did you. Are you going off highlights? Are you going off gold gloves (Lofton did win 4 of his own). Remember: day-to-day consistent excellence matters more than the occasional robbed HR or diving catch (not that Lofton didn’t have those, nor is that to say that Griffey wasn’t good on a day-to-day basis).

    The one thing I’ll say is that Ken Griffey Jr. became basically unwatchable after injuries set in with the Reds. He’s one of the most talented players – if not the most – that most of us have ever seen, but the fall he took as a defender suggests that his instincts weren’t as sharp as he gets credit for.

  531. John Says:

    530 comments. Time to write another article.

    Sorry y’all. It’s been a tough year.

  532. Raul Says:

    who the fuck said anything about hitting 50 HR?

    Griffey was far and away the best centerfielder anyone has seen since Willie Mays

  533. JohnBowen Says:

    If that were true, he would have remained at least a decent CF in his 30’s.

    Even with the injuries, I’ll bet he was still faster than Jim Edmonds.

    And yet there was no disputing who was the superior CFer circa 2000-2006.

  534. Chuck Says:

    #527,

    Sigh.

    If your knowledge of the game goes further than your knowledge of the stats, then it’s easier to discount them without question…if your knowledge of stats is more than the game, then you have to be a little more open minded when what you see on the field doesn’t jive with what’s on paper.

    Jeter’s a better defender than the metrics say he is, which means the metrics are flawed.

  535. Chuck Says:

    “Sorry y’all. It’s been a tough year.”

    Amen to that.

  536. Bob Says:

    Here is a potential topic. What do you guys think about the September call-up policy?

    1. Keep as is
    2. No callups?
    3 A happy medium? Please describe
    4. Or is it a shit topic?
    5. lLt Chuck or John answer first as it may be article worthy as opposed to just comment worthy. That fair?

  537. Chuck Says:

    Leave it as it is.

    I’ve thought about the 25 man “active” roster for each game a bit, especially on Saturday watching Joe Girardi burn four pitchers in an inning and two thirds.

    I do think however that situations like that are rare, and Girardi’s been known to do the same thing in June, so if it ain’t broke….

  538. Bob Says:

    1. The Red Sox suck.
    2. And now I find out that Reno will use trevor Bauer in the final game of the minor league season against Pawtucket.
    3. The players in hockey are locked out.
    4. The Dolphins or the Lions better make the playoffs.

  539. Raul Says:

    Young players can benefit from just being with the Major League club in September, so I wouldn’t eliminate the roster expansion.

    You don’t like to have players just sitting around after a full Minor League season, but if they can get the occasional game time…rest up in September before going to the AFL or to play in the Caribbean, then there is some benefit.

    Among the things MLB needs to work on, September call-ups is down the list.
    I think the Draft could use some more tweaks.
    I think MLB needs to take a more definitive stand on Instant Replay.
    I think the drug testing needs to be refined.

    But a lot of the other things I’d like to see change in MLB are minor in scope, but things that I feel create a better experience.

    Games are still too long.
    Use of relievers is terrible.
    Umpires still refuse to call the high strike.
    Umpires still get too sensitive with inside pitches.
    Personally, I’d like to see more doubleheaders scheduled.

    But that’s just me.

  540. Chuck Says:

    “1. The Red Sox suck”

    I’ve known that since 1964.

    “2. And now I find out that Reno will use trevor Bauer in the final game of the minor league season against Pawtucket.”

    Look on the bright side..Pawtucket’s starting Nelson Figueroa.

    “3. The players in hockey are locked out.”

    There are no words to describe what an asshole Gary Bettman is.

    “4. The Dolphins or the Lions better make the playoffs.”

    Neither will.

  541. JohnBowen Says:

    “Jeter’s a better defender than the metrics say he is, which means the metrics are flawed.”

    Again, based on what? One play in 2001 and another in 2004?

    Studies have been done which looked at every play for a few seasons – literally every play – in his 20’s, no less – and they showed that he gets to fewer balls than he should.

    That’s a simple fact.

    Doesn’t matter which metric you use, they all show he sucks, and so will a careful observation of the game.

    Fortunately, the metrics quantify roughly how much Jeter’s glove has hurt his team and it’s not nearly, like even close to how much he’s helped them with his bat, so his precious legacy can be preserved.

  542. Raul Says:

    Did the Yankees give up tons of runs over the years because of Jeter?
    Did the pitchers throw more pitches over the years per inning because of Jeter?

    Where is this information?
    Who determines what balls should have been gotten to?

    There are too many variables.

    Sucks is a strong word. Really. Jeter sucks?
    He’s obviously not Ozzie Smith at this age.

    But the metrics don’t mean much.
    Who was a better SS? Tony Fernandez, Walt Weiss or Mike Gallego?.

    Chances are you never saw either play. And you really want to take defensive metrics as your basis to definitively say which was better?

  543. Raul Says:

    So anyway,

    Who are your World Series favorites?

  544. JohnBowen Says:

    “Who was a better SS? Tony Fernandez, Walt Weiss or Mike Gallego?.

    Chances are you never saw either play. And you really want to take defensive metrics as your basis to definitively say which was better?”

    No, I wouldn’t. They were close enough that you could get varying opinions and no one would necessarily be right or wrong.

    The metrics are an approximation.

    It’s one thing to argue about whether Gallego was better than Weiss, those guys are close. But, going just off range factor, the difference between Ozzie Smith and league average is about the same as the difference between league average and Jeter.

    If you asked who the better HR hitter was between Dave Winfield and Fred McGriff was, I couldn’t tell you. Fred McGriff had a few more, but played in an era of bigger ballparks and such. *Approximately* they’re the same.

    But you can’t approximate Omar Vizquel as a roughly average home run hitter. That’s the difference.

  545. Chuck Says:

    “and they showed that he gets to fewer balls than he should.”

    And who says that?

    The guy watching the play?

    Gimme a break.

  546. JohnBowen Says:

    @543, Rangers and Giants, rematch of 2010.

  547. Chuck Says:

    “Who are your World Series favorites?”

    Rangers and Reds.

  548. Raul Says:

    I’m going to pick the Athletics to go to the World Series.
    Luck will go Beane’s way this time.

  549. Chuck Says:

    LA’s going to catch them RAul

  550. JohnBowen Says:

    For the record, I think it’s worth questioning why the hell Beane traded Gio Gonzalez if he knew he was going to compete this year. Although he did get Tommy Milone in that deal, who has been Oakland’s most consistent pitcher.

  551. JohnBowen Says:

    4.5 games in 17? I highly doubt it, but anything’s possible, as last year showed.

  552. Raul Says:

    Anaheim plays Texas and Chicago. Gonna have to win both series. And maybe need a sweep of one

  553. Chuck Says:

    “For the record, I think it’s worth questioning why the hell Beane traded Gio Gonzalez if he knew he was going to compete this year.”

    He obviously didn’t.

    They’re playing way over their talent level..Cespedes..Reddick..

  554. Raul Says:

    Cespedes has been worth it in his first year.

    What is really disappointing in Oakland is Jemile Weeks.

    But I think Beane knew that he was taking a low risk, good reward with Reddick and Moss.
    And who knows, maybe if he called up Carter a little earlier, they may have a few more wins now.

  555. Bob Says:

    In the 5th inning Tigers 4-3 over the White Sox.

  556. Mike Felber Says:

    I can see a fielding metrics being a stat you would not take as definitive. But when all measures dovetail, pure range factor with many different infield set ups, & almost all non-homer observations about his reaction time, speed & agility, clearly it strains credulity to believe Jeter does not let significantly more balls than the average SS go unfielded, at least for most of his career.

    If we did not have stats at all-let us say somehow we could not even count raw #s, BA, OPS: I guarantee you that pure “observation” would yield inaccurate consensus about who did what & how often. Reputation, confirmation bias, initial impressions, & group think would run amok.

    It is not a stretch to say that over so many years Lofton would be at least a little better than Griffey. They were both excellent, but Griffey declined earlier due to injuries. Normally I agree that when you start at a higher level your decline is predictable & you will still be performing at a high level defensively in your 30’s. But injuries are a wild card.

    Also athleticism & speed means a lot in the field but are only part of the picture. Efficiency, positioning, getting a good jump & route to the ball are big. Mantle had more raw athleticism than Mays or anyone then, but even at his pre-ravaged by injury peak he was not as good with the glove.

    And Mays was superb with the glove Raul, but what made him so superb (& better than Aaron) was his overall talent. I do trust the defensive metrics, & accounts of some-that there were a few who were as good or better than Mays in the outfield. But none of those could approach his overall skills.

    Many said Dom DiMaggio was better than Joe is the OF. Jimmy Piersall has an insane 15 rToT defensively. Unless you can show something unusual about Boston’s OF, pitching & park that distorted this estimate, I will believe that there were a very few savants in the field-like Mark Belanger-who in that 1 delimited function exceeded even a Mays.

  557. Raul Says:

    Josh Hamilton is 31.

    If you were the General Manager of a baseball team, what would you offer him?

  558. Bob Says:

    Seriously? He hits in Arlington. He has some issues. 2 years with an option, and only if I though my team had a realistic shot at the playoffs. I know people will view this post with scorn, but oh well.

  559. Raul Says:

    You paying him 20 million per @ Bob?

  560. JohnBowen Says:

    I wouldn’t go that far, Bob, but definitely think the 7/200 thing would be stupid.

    4/75 or so … with maybe a vesting option or something.

  561. Bob Says:

    I have no issues with 20 million for 2 years. I can deal with overpaying the average annual salary. It’s the length of the contract that usually is the kick in the nuts. And to possibly give up a draft pick, though hearing rumors this draft is somewhat weak?

  562. Bob Says:

    Meant to type 20 million a year for 2 years.

  563. Bob Says:

    And to answer your world Series question, Baltimore vs. Washington. The October match-up for the bragging rights in DC.

  564. Chuck Says:

    Hamilton’s a tough nut.

    On one hand..he missed four years almost, so his birthdate age is 31, his baseball age is 27.

    Then again, that much abuse has to age you internally as well, so he really could be 35.

    I might go 4/190 with a couple of options.

  565. Raul Says:

    I think you meant to type 4/19 per year, right?
    Not 4 years, 190 million.

  566. Bob Says:

    5-4 White Sox in the top of the 8th.

  567. Raul Says:

    Lol

    Big Ken gets no respect but his team is in contention.

  568. Chuck Says:

    I meant 4/90..lol

  569. Bob Says:

    Have a good night you guys.

  570. Raul Says:

    I think you’re close, Chuck.

    A four year deal still allows Hamilton to seek another mid-range contract at 35.
    But you can bet his agent will be pushing hard for a 5th year. I would offer 4/90 and I think that’s fair.

    I think his agents will shoot for 5/130 and see of they can get teams to fight each other for him.
    With the Dodgers, Angels and Red Sox probably out, I think he stays in Texas with the Yankees low balling him.

  571. Raul Says:

    So my sister goes to the Mets/Phillies game tonight and shits on everyone.
    I don’t know why the hell a 17 year old girl who rarely watches baseball would talk shit about how the Yankees are better than two teams in another league, but whatever.

    Somehow, she got the bullpen coach for the Phillies to toss her a baseball.
    He didn’t sign it though. Lol.

  572. Mike Felber Says:

    A big age gap, my “baby” sister is 6 years younger than me. I was a Northeaster just as a Freshman, & recall a group of dorm mates giving lip to the right fielder, a black guy. They were not racist, but too ignorant to realize how wrong it was, & how it likely seemed racist, esp. in Boston, to verbally abuse him. At that age usually the brain impulse control is still not fully developed.

    The Chicago faithful will love this one. I enjoyed it.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/cubs-fans-now-too-fat-to-attend-games,29479

  573. Bob Says:

    Clayton Kershaw may need surgery on his left hip. Could be out until May. Huge blow to the Dodgers.

  574. Raul Says:

    Certainly is. Seems like an unusual injury for a pitcher.
    I’ve heard of abdominal issues before, but hip?

    Anyone hear of this kind of injury?

  575. Bob Says:

    Raul, I did not read any of the articles, will do so this evening. But I just googled ‘Hip injuries in baseball.” Hope some of the links are informative.

  576. JohnBowen Says:

    It seems to me that this usually happens with position players (ARod comes to mind). Combination of swinging and playing the field I guess.

  577. Raul Says:

    Andrew McCutchen:
    .341/.413/.567
    28 HR
    88 RBI
    18 SB
    11 CS
    100 Runs

    Ryan Braun:
    .312/.387/.602
    40 HR
    103 RBI
    24 SB
    7 CS
    95 Runs

    Shit. I mean McCutchen plays the harder position and carries the burden of breaking decades of losing, so I’m still thinking he should get it, but if we’re serious here, we can’t ignore Braun’s numbers.

  578. Bob Says:

    NL MVP is between 3 guys.
    1. Posey
    2. McCutchen
    3. Molina
    4. I defended Braun, and still will. I just accept the fact that I think voters will punish him.

  579. Bob Says:

    Also, I have Molina 3rd. Coin flip between McCutchen and Posy.

  580. Bob Says:

    Meant Posey. Sorry Buster.

  581. Raul Says:

    Yeah I think Posey will get votes because of his tremendous 2nd half

  582. Chuck Says:

    I’ve been to Shea Stadium three times in my life, the first time was September 1st, 1974..my best friend and our dads went down and remains the only time I saw Hank Aaron play live.

    It was also the first and only career shut-out for Tim McGraw’s dad.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN197409010.shtml

    The other two times was as a player.

    No self-proclaiming Yankee fan would EVER go to Shea/CitiField unless the Yankees were the opponent.

    Going to a Mets game is like cheating on your wife.

  583. Chuck Says:

    McCutchen’s the MVP unless the Pirates fall below .500.

  584. Bob Says:

    “Going to a mets game is like cheating on your wife.”

    In other words, somewhat common!!!

  585. JohnBowen Says:

    I would vote for McCutchen as well at this juncture.

    But it’s close enough – as are the races themselves (which shouldn’t matter) that Braun or Posey could grab that crown in the last two weeks.

  586. Mike Felber Says:

    Saw Mays there when a little boy. Recall him backpedaling for a catch. Despite his last year, he seems to have aged a little better than Aaron, after the latter’s late career 47 HRs in a pitcher’s error, which was great.

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